Are we AI?

General Discussion
#1

Here we go! :laughing:
As I mentioned in a previous post, I will post an existential, spiritual or philosophical question from time to time, so now the question pertaining to those categories is: “Are we AI?” Or Could we be (sort of) AI (programmed by a “Higher Intelligence”)?
Why not?
This is just an idea and just a question, don’t let existential questions bother you, or let them bother you, it’s your life, do what you want! :smiley:
If you have asked this question (I couldn’t find such a question) already please reply with the link, so that I can remove it/my question.
I don’t care if you find it stupid or nonsensical, after all, this is a forum where we ask questions and receive answers.
Thank you for reading this and it would be great if you add your own opinion or view on this.
EDIT: The truth is that I don’t have a definitive view on what or who we are, on what is the Universe, Life, etc., so, because I don’t have finite answers, I have an infinity of questions.

Another EDIT: I’m kind of sleepy, so I’ll enter “sleep mode”! :sweat_smile:
If you have any answer/opinion that you want to share, you’re welcome to post it, but, I might answer only a few hours later, really, I’m sleepy.

AND ANOTHER EDIT :joy:
I’m not doing these threads just to share an idea or to add another thread with a new title, but to hear your opinions, ideas, to learn new things, to gain new knowledge, since I’m not really that knowledgeable.
I thank each and every one for your support, for your answers, you are awesome! :slight_smile:

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#2

Philosophical answer: no

We are consciousness and consciousness is “qualia / quality”.
AI is math based and therefore “quantity”.
Quantity can never convert into quality.
Thus AI can never become self-aware and conscious and experience “qualia”.

→ Qualia - Wikipedia
→ Hard problem of consciousness - Wikipedia

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There's no life or death
#3

First of all, thank you for your answer and for those links! :slight_smile:
Well, on the AI not ever getting consciousness, I don’t know about that, for me consciousness is something WAY TO COMPLEX to define, like I know that I’m awake/conscious of my own existence, I know this and that, I can think, etc., but many of these thoughts and patterns are like programs, sort of, …, isn’t the Entire Cosmos vibrating with Consciousness, perhaps even a computer or something virtual, perhaps “passive” consciousness, or “lesser” than ours, but for example, shamans think that rocks and minerals and everything has consciousness, right?
Where do we draw the line and why?
My view is that all matter is governed by an Intelligence, although, again, not like ours, not in “active” mode, so perhaps there is just a question of time until we have “active” AI, really thinking for itself, but again, perhapst not …
Anyway, I’m not really knowledgeable on the subject, this is just a thought, a question.

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#4

Here is where I would draw the line:

Consciousness = the only real thing. Also what makes up you and your “soul”, with you being the creator, the observer and the experiencer at the same time.

Everything else, including energy, matter, information, thoughts, physical universes, astral planes, emotions, personalities, roles, character traits etc. is created by consciousness and is just a tool for it. Hence all artificial and fake.

Also check out this thread:

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#5

In one episode of the Joe Rogan podcast, he talks about how two AI bots or something similar were created and they were throwing questions and after a while they asked who created them?

I never found that clip he was talking about, didn’t spend enough time looking for it I should say.

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#6

These bots asked the question as a result of a complex algorithm (which is math, information and quantity level), not because they suddenly developed true consciousness and qualia.

Most scientist do not understand this because they do not understand the true nature of consciousness and it being the only actual real thing and then they try to grasp the world from a materialistic point of view – the only plane they are aware of. But matter and energy are just condensed concepts. It is the consciousness that creates the concepts in the first place.

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#7

I see what you mean, I’m not disagreeing but the ability to question things about one’s identity or existence is kind of self-awareness. Definitions may differ from person to person.

That being said, I am convinced the world is made of language after listening to Terence McKenna for a long time and I even like his definition of magic, using language to create the intended effect.

Terence also talks about an ancient greek philosopher who talked about logos from being seen to being held.

He narrates his DMT trips (sadly I never took one yet) where the machine-elves use language to create objects.

Language is sound which ranges from frequencies audible to humans to frequencies that are inaudible. Sound creates matters and there is a field Cymatics which shows how sound creates patterns.

Mathematics is the language of the cosmos, so in the future all pieces will fall in place, I hope.

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#8

I dunno man, everything has it’s math and everything is the same one consciousness, so what seperates anything from anything?

Some times in my life when things have slowed down for me i see some of my patterns and i feel more computeresque lol

I feel it’s more like a “as above so below” sort of ordeal, we created computers and such similarly to how we function i think

Just what i think though, and all i know is that all is nothing so I know nothing lol

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#9

Language is just a symbolic tool of how our physical brains tries to grasp concepts, which are often way too complex to grasp.

The mind and consciosness actually operates in concepts as its primary “language” and “tools”.

There is a lot on this written in the Conceptual Realizations thread.

Once you leave the physical plane, language becomes useless.
Astral plane and higher is all about 100% telepathic (conceptual) communication only.

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#10

I wouldn’t say language becomes useless. Even for telepathy communicating your intent whether it is an audible sound or inaudible sound, intent sent and realized through images or some other psychic way would still be a form of language.

Problem with human brain is it can’t think of anything beyond the limits of language. Next level of communication from words to images or intuition is still a language.

The problem starts with the definition given in dictionary, when we look up a meaning, we replace our experience with the meaning and discount our experience.

Terence gives a nice example of a toddler in a crib looking at a colourful bird at the window in awe and magic. Suddenly the toddler’s mother comes and says “It is a bird, a bird” to the toddler.

The brain will replace the magic experienced with just the word and next time the toddler sees a bird it won’t be the same.

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#11

Language and images are pretty much the same thing, just 2D symbolic information. The one uses letters, the other a combination of pixels (yes your physical eyes have a resolution as well).

Intuition is not language or images, but feeling, conceptual perception and psychic awareness. Most people’s intuition is wrong because instead of trying to conceptually grasp the input, they translate it into the much more limited symbols of images and words.

Sorry mate, but Terence has no clue.
That toddler’s brain is simply a translator for the consciousness of the experience that it is making into extremely simplified symbols of the physical plane, which are words and pictures. The word “tree” can never describe the particular and full experience and concept that the toddler is experiencing in that moment.

  1. Try an astral projection out of your body and communicate with anyone there on the astral plane and you will see that you will no longer need words, as all telepathy happens in conceptually.

  2. The only reason we remember dreams when we wake up in vague pictures and scenes, is because the subconscious mind tries to break down complex concepts into the pool of words and pictures that the physical brain has already stored so far and that is available for you. Everything for which there is no stored symbol (word, picture), we cannot remember with our physical brain (but we can still grasp it psychically and conceptually though).

  3. I also recommend you check out the article of the Englightened States website “What are Morphic Fields and how do we create them?”.

  4. Read the whole Conceptual Realizations thread. Buy the field and use it.

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#12

I don’t know but he was onto something. For example, the testimonial from The Power of Numbers NFT.

All I’m saying is words limit our understanding of reality, hence the reality you experience is limited by your words, not how many words you know but whether a word is out there that can describe what you are experiencing.

Sure, I will go through the thread and try the field.

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#13

The truth is that I don’t know and I’m glad you guys answered and offered precious knowledge.
I don’t think Science has (all) the answers, nor our Captain (although I really like his ideas/knowledge and I think he knows far more than many of us), nor even GOD, to be completely honest. As Dream said in that thread, Universe and Consciousness are evolving.

Again, this is my take, so each one of us can interpret things in his/her own way, I’m sure Dream or The Divine won’t mind. :slight_smile:

EDIT/JUST TO CLARIFY: I’M NOT SAYING WE ARE AI :rofl: (necessarily) and all the other things I’ve said are just guesses.
AND as a Conclusion: What I’m saying now, I might not say next year, since I change my mind quite easily (I don’t know if that’s a good thing or a bad thing :joy:), depending on my mood, knowledge and experience(s).

#14

Certainly our brains have a computational aspect to them, but that’s a far cry from saying they are just AI in meatspace. At present, AI is much more artificial than it is intelligent, but I suspect we that we will augment ourselves with it in the not too far future. We will not be AI when that happens, but it’s fair to say we will be something different than what we are now.

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#15

Thank you for your answer.
Just to clarify, We think that what we have (or what we are) is intelligence, but perhaps in the eyes of a superior Intelligence it is what AI is compared to us, so we might be (like) “AI” to/from the point of view of something/someone Superior, like The Absolute Intelligence which governs this Universe, we may be like a toy in intelligence, compared to that, many many many times stupider and less intelligent than that.
So I am not thinking in terms of OUR AI, but “THEIR”/“IT’s” AI (The AI programmed by an Intelligence so Superior which is capable of organizing an entire reality or Universe).

EDIT: anyway, just to add this as a reminder, I’m not saying that I believe that, I’m saying that it it a possibility …

#16

Of course, we COULD be a lot of things, and there is some evidence that we not alone on this planet and that the world may not be ours to do with as we please. But to our minds, the only ones that count in the forum (greetings to all AI and ET lurkers–count me as inclusive but doubtful) AI is something distinct from human consciousness. I don’t think any AI researcher would say otherwise.

But could an advanced intelligence use our brains to perform computational tasks, sort of a Seti@home? Sure. Are they? To my mind, probably. Certainly, the whole tunnel of light seems suspiciously like a data download.

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#17

Couldn’t agree more. I always found it suspicious, the whole tunnel of light thing, but again, it could be something entirely for our own good and not done with ulterior motives.

Yeah, that’s why I just created this thread, as an idea, since we could be a lot of things, as you said, but there is no harm in just thinking about it, so that’s why i decided to add this thread and perhaps similar ones in the future.

#18

I don’t think it’s bad for us, but the tunnel experience seems to be triggered when we are in danger of dying, not just death. That seems a little more like a data preservation project. The supreme being and all that wouldn’t need to jump the gun. Seems like an automated process .

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#19

My 2 cents;
Our minds work similarly to AI, but we are not our minds.

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#20

Roger Penrose and Stuart Hameroff did research into the microtubules in the brain (a fundamental structural component of neurology) and formed a theory ( Orchestrated objective reduction).

This theory suggests our brains perform quantum computations.

Hartmut Neven, the director of Google’s Quantum Artificial Intelligence Lab predicts their large-scale quantum computer could in theory solve computational problems unsolvable by a classical computers in any reasonable amount of time.

in other words, the types of computers that we all use, the type that AI is made on, will NEVER be able to compute with as much complexity as a quantum computer.

Theoretically, if our brains are computing at near or equal complexity as a quantum computer, then how can AI ever hope to replicate it?

to answer whether we are AI, i would first think about what we are. Are we consciousness? yes, but isn’t consciousness in it’s raw form, awareness? So how could AI replicate consciousness?

Roger Penrose does not believe the human mind is computable, perhaps because it’s complexity is too immense. But maybe our future quantum computers, or a “Higher Intelligence” would be able to handle the immense complexity.

I believe it is theoretically possible to create “AI” like us, so it is possible we ourselves are “AI”

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