Avoiding messing with Free Will of others

Spirituality
#1

There are many reasons to try and respect Free Will of others.
The most obvious is moral reason, forcing others to do anything intuitively feels bad, evil, may hurt people in various ways etc.
Then, In my opinion, there is also more egoistic reason, if like attracts like, then, by manipulating others, you will attract manipulative people into your life etc.
Also, if you believe in reincarnation and non-linear time, then there is a chance that you will reincarnate as a person you are abusing, and in this what you are abusing your future self.

So, how do you avoid influencing the free will of others?
I feel like the only way would be to live like a hermit, far from any other living beings.
In a sense, even talking with someone is influencing this person free will, no?

Sharing your thoughts with someone my change his/her perspective, thus messing with free will?

Another example: Lets say someone tries to quit ciggaretes (or any other addiction), and then I (either knowing about quitting attempt or not) start smoking in front of that person. This person may think ‘‘I didn’t choose to see someone else with cigarette, I didn’t consent to that. Now I am more tempted to smoke, against my free will’’
Wouldn’t there be some truth in this thought?

Third example: lets say someone is insanely attractive and encounters other person who wants to practice Celibacy/ Brahmacharya/Nofap/Transmutation etc. The practicioner, after seeing this insanely attractive person may involuntarily indulge in lustful thoughts/actions. After all, it is very hard to countrol our instincts, and maybe this attractive person has set practicioner back in his/her journey, against free will, just by being attractive.

It gets even harder when using any magic/manifestation methods. It is much much easier and more potent to focus on ‘‘manifesting new PC’’ or ‘‘new PC’’ than ‘‘manifesting new PC without influencing the free will of others’’
Same way with sigils and affirmations. More words make intent more messy thus weaker in my opinion.
And, lets say shop owner decided to give out 10 free PCs to first 10 clients. Then, the owner decided to do that, but his worker may be person who have a grudge against me, and dont want me to have this new PC. Then, my ‘‘new PC’’ sigil, is basically foricng this worker to give me new PC, in order to keep his/her job, yes? So, my magic was against the free will of thers.
Same situation with making myself more attractive/ rich/ social or anything really.
How can one be sure that his actions wont violate someone else’s free will?
Or, better question, is it even possible to NOT act against someone’s will?
People are very different, they have different characters, traumas, needs, dreams, thoughts, wills etc.
There is a very big chance that someone, somewhere may read this exact post and regret rading it.
Or even better, someone may just lurk the forum and see it by ACCIDENT.
So I, by deciding to post it, am potentially abusing someone else’s free will, yes?

I ABUSED YOUR FREE WILL, AND KNOWING YOUR CURIOSITY I FORCED YOU TO READ THIS POST :smiley:

But seriousely, the only possibility to be 100% sure that you will not upset some being with any of your action or even inaction, seems to be a situation where you would be one and only being in existence.
How do you NOT mess with someone’s free will, or stop feeling bad about doing so? It is one of, if not the hardest mental trap I have encountered in my life.

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#2

I wouldn’t say so, It’s all up to the person.

Like, it’s all up to them to start smoking again, you did not force them (you did not put a cigar in their mouth and fire it up) against their will. But they might get thoughts to do them by themselves, and hence they choose to do it by their will. Influenced by you, but they had a choice…

The shopworker can always say no, and not give you that computer.
yea and lose his job lol ur right. but he has a choice to not do it.
Shopworker has a chance to change his mind about not giving you that computer and give it to you, yes influenced by the shopowner, but I would not say abused/messed up by him

I still think no. I chose it. You did have an influence, but did not force me to do it. I chose to read it.

Realize you are not messing anyone’s free will, unless you are actually forcing someone and they have not other choice (or unless if you fully manipulated them lol, this is another thing to discuss) than to their will to be abused by you.

At least this is my current view on all this.

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#3

I guess that depends on what you’re meaning when you say “free will.” My definition of those same words would not include this example, because in my definition of “free will,” the person I’m talking with has the free will to determine if and how they will be influenced. They might not realize they have that free will or they might not exercise that free will of theirs, but they do have that free will.

So that we can have a more helpful conversation, what are you meaning when you say “free will”?

Me? By reminding myself that they do, in fact, have free will and encouraging and empowering them to use the free will that they have.

Why are you smoking in front of that person? I think that’s an important question.

Are you smoking in front of that person because your own addiction has you craving your cigarette? Then you’re not messing with that person’s free will; you’re satisfying your fiending.

Even if you were smoking in front of that person because you were being a dick and wanted to mess with their free will, they still have the abilities to use their will in ways that they want.

No, that’s not what’s going on. This is the practitioner not owning the fact that they don’t have any will to speak of and blaming another (the attractive person) for their (the practitioner’s) poorly developed will. It’s an instance of the practitioner giving away their power and their agency, which is probably why they have a poorly developed will in the first place.

[ETA: This sort of heinous false logic was once commonly used by lawyers in my country to victim-shame rape victims as the lawyers defended their clients. Fortunately, in a large part of my country, we’ve wisened up and shut that crap down real quick when we see it.]

Whilst it’s true that there are forms of magic which are based in controling and influencing others, there are many other ways that magic/manifestation methods operate, such as through an arranging of a willing “seller” with a desiring “buyer” (those terms in quotes, to acknowledge that no money has to even change hands here).

I don’t agree with your conclusion here but let’s assume that this is correct. Isn’t it the worker exercising their “free will” to decide to keep their job that they want, yes?

Maybe the answer you’re reaching for is to use a more helpful definition of “free will” because, according to my definition of that phrase, none of your example violate anybody’s free will?

Absolutely!

When you have a workable definition of “free will,” then it’s a matter of acknowledging, respecting and allowing others to exercise their free will. AKA don’t be a dick.

When you have a workable definition of “free will” and you have done your honest best to not be a dick but you had unintentionally lapsed and, for a moment, were a dick then, first off, I think you want to feel bad for a moment. That momentary bad feeling is your indicator that you weren’t exercising YOUR will and adhering to your intention (to not be a dick). And (I think) you want that indicator so that you can regroup, re-asses, learn from and adjust your intentions and behaviors to adhere to your willful intention.

When you’ve done that, then you forgive yourself, because everyone makes mistakes.

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#4

I think that none of us have free will with alot of million of stuff that all our soul/spirit body has ,we are constanly manifesting each other and projecting etc

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#5

The ones that rule the earth are messing with our free will over trillion years so :disappointed:is hard to not messing with someone is will ,your aura and subconcius will still manifested things and mess with someone his free will one way or other

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#6

This is an interesting subject and there is no easy answer as many nowadays don’t even agree on what the “will” actually is. William Walker Atkinson was a prolific esoteric author that has written extensively upon the subjects of “desire-force” and “will-power” and how to understand and develop them on subtle level, along many other things, and most of his writings are freely available on the net, could be worth having a look if anyone is interested in these matters.

As for my personal point of view there is, generally speaking, no free will infringement during normal day to day interactions (simply because anyone has the faculty to reject the suggestions being made, if he doesn’t want to agree), while it is true that the most positive and “powerful” of the two in an exchange will have the upper hand in making his opinion accepted, so to say… rule being that the stronger the force (read: energy), the greater the effect. The real bad karma to be avoided, especially in esoteric/energy work circles, is messing with the mind and will of others through subtle means, as the consequences can be dire to say the least. Also, by trying to impose your will upon the other person what one is really affirming is his powerlessness, as if one had the power he wouldn’t ever resort to such means but just bend reality to his will, without changing others.

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#8

Actually I had a discussion about power and manipulation this week.
The other person took the position of manipulating aka interferring in others free will is dependent on the intention. Something like “as long as I have good intentions its not manipulation and I can do what I want.”
I think it´s obviously a questionable position since it assumes that We are always able to know what is in the highest good for others. and let´s be real more times than not we don´t know and more often It isn´t even our business. (why do we even make it our business what other people should or shouldn´t do unless they threaten us? Isn´t it mostly egodriven? Whatever good reason we come up with for it?)

I think the best thing somebody can do is to really get to know him/herself. At this point this person shouldn´t feel the need to interferre with the freewill of others since he/her knows him/herself enough to be able to create a reality that is based on this persons worldview.
People that fit your worldview will automatically enter as long as you hold no restistance to it.
Others will fall away.
For example I had neighbours that triggered my Traumas constantly. I always felt like I am in opposition to them and encountered them more and more while associating more and more negativ emotions with them.
The more I focused on rising my vibration and working through the rootcauses, the less I saw them. Sometimes I didn´t met anybody of them for weeks! We just seemed to move in completely different timelines despite living in the same building. I thinks this applies for anything in life.

I think that´s the crucial point. Same goes for celibacy. “Temptation” or “Interferrence” will always be there as long as you hold beliefs inside yourself that attract those.
At the point you encounter such a situation you have to respond somehow ofc.
But ask yourself “why am I encountering somebody that doesn´t fit to my worldview?”
Maybe it´s bc you don´t evem know yourself to be “freewilled” and this person shows you this through contrast in essence teaches you how to acchieve freewill?

Somebody who chose to live in a certain way (based on his/her true desires) and doesn´t resist this life won´t have to mess with others free will. People that are alike will follow very soon.
Ofc this is no absolut truth just my thoughts on this.

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#9

Free will strikes me more as an emergent quality than an innate one. Most people are responding to their conditioning. That’s not to say it’s okay to mess with someone’s conditioning to get you want. That’s still on you, but you’re probably not messing with their free will. If they had much free will, they would be much harder to “mess” with.

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