Let's talk about NFTs & set some ground rules

I’m trying to bite my tongue, but regrettably lack the impulse control. I do not feel people have the right to profit off of Captain’s work to the tune of 10x, 20, 30x whatever. Some are up on Venly for several million…good luck with that.

Yeah yeah “free economy,” I get it, I’m 'Murikan, but really, it’s Captain’s work, not yours. He should be selling for $5k, not you.

Unfortunately I am part of the problem, because I am a frequent buyer/trader, trying to get the core set of what I really need to develop (and paying/trading for much more than is fair for an item), and unfortunately having missed out due to private groups, and lacking the patience to wait for the greedy to become desperate…so this is the pot calling the kettle black…I realize that it makes me just as greedy as anyone else and that I’ve somehow justified it in assessing certain internal values to certain NFT’s over others, when in fact they are all life changing.

I have no answers, only meandering solipsisms.

Hate mail coming in 3, 2, 1…

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Scribe i agree with you 100000%!

Major Blueprint and 13th Skull could help So many of us, but to get it we need to pay thousands of dollars while the people bought it for $320. That’s not fair at all

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Yeah of course.

That’s the NFT idea no? lol

That’s fair at all :man_shrugging:

The thing that’s not fair at all is when the people don’t respect the NFT (gods above all and the work of the group) and sell it super low.

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At all complainers…

If you don’t like it (or you don’t have it) just create your own stuff, simple.

I also believe there never be any agreement on that because of one single thing - you cannot change the peoples mindset.

Once you forget all that selling, trading and wanting and just be happy you got a field made by a deity with unrestricted potential (!) all the problems are forgotten. Yes also the lurkers that do nothing. Why people think it’s their job to tell anyone what they should do?

It starts with “I”, as always.

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I was once leading a group project, a member concerned members who would sell the NFT really low prices. I said, I can not control how much they sell their own belongings. But, if I think it’s super low price, then I would buy it myself… The point is… If we think someone is selling it for super low price, my goodness, grab the opportunity. :blush:
Why not, ohhh because I think it’s still too expansive for me to buy? (here… I am just talking about myself) :blush:

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My two cents is that groups should be left to their own devices. Some will welcome a monitored experience, where, for others, a monitor or neutral observer would throw things off. So maybe groups can elect to opt-in to the monitored experience instead of having to opt-out, which might feel weird or confrontational.

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As someone who’s newer to this forum I’ll give some thoughts. My opinions and perspective will clearly be different from those who have been here longer, are more well known and have developed reputation/names for themselves here.

I think it comes down to what people/Dream/Sammy want this to be.
Honestly? It feels like I’m back at college or in my CoD days with clans going on, people sneaking around and inviting others, some people usurping others as the leader, some not having an opinion. If you’re an unskilled player (quiet or new person on the forum) your chance of getting an invitation is low. If you’re well known, you can easily maneuver about any group you want. If you don’t log into the network for a bit, you might miss the clan invitation for the rare golden guns you’ve always wanted and would probably appreciate it more than someone who is getting the gun just to give it away. You get the point.

It doesn’t feel like it’s accessible to everyone. We say it’s for the community. But it feels like it’s the opposite, for everyone, but the community.

I don’t know how to fix it, because at some point my friends and I realized that the clans were dividing us more than uniting us. Then we all played together again. But it did make us much better, we worked harder towards the goals of winning the game (creating the ‘topic’ field). Competitiveness and exclusiveness brings out the best and worst of humanity. Whether it’s technology, sports or anything.

There is always winners and losers.

We have this thread, because we have more losers than winners.

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I never knew that there were invitations. Most of my experiences getting into groups was right place/right time when the notice went up. I missed a ton of those.

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After the master index, another fantastic post to help the newbies and keep everything fair! :+1:

But it is going to very hard if people get to be arbiters, either you or Captain should lay down the rules that should not broken. I don’t like the idea of people getting lucky because of reasons like they are old members who can get their hands on everything and hoard and then later start selling each NFT for their retirement fund.

And the knowledge shared here that contributes to the creation of NFT is not something that people are creating on their own, it is the work of so many authors and researchers, if there is no internet from where the knowledge would come? Just because someone spends some time pasting content from somewhere else should not give the person the right to be the gate keeper and prevent others from getting the benefits.

And to keep things simple, NFTs should be for very exclusive things like a specific God/Goddess, some specific skill instead of having more and more things as NFT. If everything is NFT then more and more people get discouraged in the long run.

I say no to private groups or at least they should be made public in terms of what NFTs are getting made so people who may genuinely need can beg or cajole. If someone is interested, then they would participate, not be a fence sitter.

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Nicely put, guess all newbies have the same experience.

@Scribe @SC448 Yes, agree completely. Captain’s work profiting others to some extent could be allowed because it was Captain’s and Sammy’s decision I think but selling something for thousands of dollars which someone got for hundreds is pure greed and totally unfair for others.

But like @SammyG rightly said in such cases NFTs may not be sold right? That is why he suggested trading is better in such cases. I too agree that no one sane enough would shell out thousands which was bought for hundreds.

I also think some kind of limit can be set, ‘original price + some fancy formula’, and this formula the group participants can set up. :joy:

@SammyG I have a suggestion, in cases where some NFTs are being sold for thousands of dollars, if you say in such cases new NFTs will be created that are better than the older ones, may be people will control their greed, some kind of market correction? :grin:

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Sammy, thank you for allowing the discussion to happen and for bringing this topic to the surface.

I believe here, as a community, everyone has had a lot of thoughts on different parts that go into the group projects. And it’s the first time that everyone collectively gets to share their opinion on this matter.

It’s a big opportunity for everyone, leaders and members within projects alike.

So, thank you for that.

I will start by saying what I mentioned in a private discusion: It is hard to draw a full picture out of a split one where both halves have their own merits and downsides, equally.

  1. Group Projects Formation

I’ve been to groups that were introduced publicly and a select few that were formed within the original group. And let me tell you, people have been equally contributive in both types of projects.

The contribution of the group itself has nothing to do with the secrecy of the project, and it has everything to do with being selective about who you as a leader pick.

While still offering the chance for people to be informed about a possible interest being created.

Sometimes, people in public projects feel the motivation to continue just because they got in there with their free will and by choice.

And other times, people in secret projects know they were amongst ‘the chosen’ knowing they will keep their place anyway.

There are times when people in public projects exude some of the most extraordinary skills I have seen around, and it’s only when you present them the chance you know what they are capable of.

In my opinion, that was one of the most powerful things about projects. People were able to have a highly creative outlet. That was not based on anything other than their own contributions. Not their own friends and connections,

And not the cloud that comes with it.

People had a real opportunity of presenting themselves, of sharing discussions you would not see forthcoming, of finding out about new interests.

Thing is, it was also the beginning phase. After a while, you start to notice a pattern. A distinctive amount of people are able to “shine”, and depends on the next leader for the next project, you would be presented a chance to get into the next top secret project.

Which leads me to the point Sammy brought up, of these groups being a forum inside the forum.

And this has left everyone, in one way or another, undoubtedly harmed by the process.

Be it the buyers, the sellers, the participants… Everyone.

And let’s face it, people say they draw lines, but they don’t.

People go into their own newly formed secret packs and act as they wish.

A sense of higher ownership because of someone having assigned a role for themselves.

In turn, this also harms other people of the secret pack who also agreed to this, partially, as they approved to being under the wings of someone else.

The merits, however, can sometime present the most eloquant projects.

You already know the people who would bring the best out of your own interests.

And formulate them into something higher.

But do we really know?

What gives that a cloud wasn’t formed in the selection process?

And what gives that the nearest person wouldn’t have brought an even better contribution?

And what gives the perceived security of other members who agreed to be a part of this to be ever present and not have an effect on them like it has on others?

I won’t say otherwise what I think is my situation, but I do have a preference.

And in the process, I am aware of the merits and downsides that both options come with.

Whether I’m leading a project or a member, in one I hold the responsibility of not creating a separate forum and my own secret pack, and in the other I hold the responsibility of not harming others in the process.

That’s, a mere presentation. And people can choose to do what they want.

However, A main guideline to this is to always have Sammy included in the projects.

Secret or public, and from the very beginning.

  1. Pricing

It’s the first time in months that I see the market Rebalancing itself, and I’d personally like to thank everyone involved in doing this.

Several valued products have been sold for higher prices on the market, back in the day where there were only a very few products available of this powerful nature.

Now, things have changed, availability has changed, and demand has increased, but has also split into a wider array of products.

What this resulted in was a very unsettling dynamic, to say the least.

The Forums market has a dynamic whereas the prices somehow determine the value of the field itself.

And this is Noway to be anything near truth.

The value of the items from the earlier tarot cards to our newest release is highly valuable, unlikely to be ever found on any place on Earth.

This is a fact and there is no doubt about that.

But the response of people has been different, and in difference, there is a massive requirement for change.

Seeing a lower price offered for an item automatically deterres the mind from assigning the accurate value to it.

It’s a very unacceptable fact for me.

But it is how the market is like.

To counteract this, people have been raising the value of their product, and not the price, not the full intent.

Some still manage to get highly discounted deals.

But coming to the product knowing it is a valuable one, brings a certain increase in the perceived value of the product.

And it’s the first time for me personally to see people following up with that, after months of people preparing themselves for the Early Year NFT releases.

People would be working for months on end on a project only to find others selling it for what the market considers cheap.

How long will the product withstand the test of time that way?

And with the current flow of NFT releases, Group leaders can only do much about it.

I do fully agree that 5k-7k is an incredible max range for products, unless you are selling to a multi millionaire, it is not by any means healthy to sell for higher than these prices, in my opinion.

For the average human being, 5-7k is actually a lot of money.

And we can only be so grateful for being allowed the chances to even have these creations available for us.

  1. Trading

I’m gonna be concise here, it is only an outcome of all what I have said: The forums secret community would make the trustworthiness of the badges nearly impossible.

It’s easy to get a multi vouch when you have a crowd cheering for you.

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I think the easiest way to establish a reputation is to post on topics you care about.

The FOMO aspect of NFTs should correct itself over time. I suspect some of the benefit of NFTs can be gleaned from reading the descriptions and user experiences in the same way reading a novel allows some of the traits of the characters and even the author’s intent to creep into you as you read (rereading is the GOOD stuff. )

We are individual beings but we are also deeply connected. So if you don’t have 70 Million Dollars for master trader, read the adventures of someone who has it. You’ll pick up something. Or read about the Apostle Paul or the Buddha—people who had very close contact with higher forces.

Divorced from their economic exclusivity, which may or may not be be a problem, community NFTs allow people to pursue more niche visions. There are almost an infinite number of permutations that are possible.

The opportunity for profound experiences is all around us, especially on Sapien Medicine’s various YouTube, gumroad, patreon, teespring , or a Gideon Bible in a hotel room, if that’s still a thing. I think Edgar Cayce read the Bible seven times and an angel appeared before him. He didn’t have an NFT, but he found a way, though, yeah, he didn’t score on Venly.

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I have some basic doubts. @SammyG
Below doubts of mine are not criticisms .
I genuinely wish to know the answer .

  1. why NFTs are limited? Why only available for short time.? Why not like other protected fields that we can buy at anytime
  2. when limited, price always goes up in market. Even matchmaker was traded at high price just because it was stopped.
  3. I assumed that dream gets a commission for every resale. So higher the price, higher the commission. It is for the same reason I thought people trade NFT for higher price .
    Guess my assumption is wrong, realise it after reading most comments on exorbitant price.
  4. hype around ambrosia had to do a lot with “limited sale”. Why wasn’t it made Available like other fields?
    Once again, I respect the process of sale( NFT, LIMITED EDITION etc) I just wanted to know the reason behind choosing the process of sale.
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Hm well anyone can just PM me if you want to join any project, I should get you in one or two sooner or later.

Or basically PM anyone who had already been starting project and check if they’re up to something.

Or there can be a thread created for people who want to join some project in the future. Perhaps with an introduction of interests so it is known what you’d be interested to work on. And once someone has a major idea to start a project on that topic, you are then invited. It’s how it can be sure you don’t miss a project you’d be passionate about.

Or simply say I’d like to join some projects in future! Hit me up!
A small introduction would still be a useful thing to do. So it is known what to expected from you and what you expect, so we can adapt to your objectives and capabilities. And then mix them with everyone’s.

Or the other idea is to start your own one based on your interest.

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I wondered and still do, but Sammy answered one part in FAQ. It would be great and extremely beneficial to everyone instead of NFTs, they are made as fields and pegged at high prices like how mythic and legendary items are priced, even higher is fine. People can save money and buy for 1k or 2k or even more if the price is set by Sammy or Captain.

One of the reasons is to keep it rare which is creating the demand.

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Hi Sammy,

Thank you very much for raising this discussion and your point of view of what good rules would look like.

Just a couple of comments on certain points:

So that’s actually good then, because it encourages trading!

We need to be careful with this argument because it would apply e.g. to a situation like this:

A company who is producing lambos is has given away 20 cars for a discounted price as a launch campaign. After the campaign is finished, suddenly someone shows up at the car store and claims that it was always been his ultimate dream car and that he missed out on the initial discount campaign and thus demands now that a lambo is sold to him for cheap. He would probably be sent away if he cannot afford the current market price.

Same here, no one would be entitled to a certain price on Venly.

Which means, in my opinion, there is no right or wrong sales price.
People can offer their copies at the value they believe they have.
And price perception of buyers heavily depends on their beliefs and values, not just how much spare money they have in the bank.
It is all very subjective.
Some folks here in Germany are willingly spending 20k $, by taking a loan (!), on a new useless designer kitchen – but will not spend 20 $ on some vitamin D pills that will extend their life duration. :exploding_head:

I guess some people already have a type of black list with whom they personally do not want to work with because of mistrust… another reason why private groups are formed.

I believe this does not matter, because at any point in time a super rich whale can login on Venly, and BUY UP ALL the NFTs listed there with just his pocket money.
There will always be someone, in any market, who can become a dominant force…
What I mean is that a market’s balance could shift at any point and having a few less or more copies here and there will not prevent this.

Actually lately, the main reason for creating private groups was not because it is mostly always the same people who join and work together, but to make sure that there are only people in a project that can be fully trusted to be team players.
Fair team play and trust is super important.
People have no time and desire to play detectives, therefore it is easier to only work with trustworthy people from the start.

This is always an unwise decision.
People should never spend more than they have or can afford.
And should primarily invest in the NFT and its field for its features, and not for the sake of reselling it or having an extra trading token…
The rest of the forum should not be held responsible for people’s unwise financial decisions.
People need to learn from their own decisions.

Investment = always a risk.

In an investment your financial returns are not guaranteed but you for sure know what the NFT field can do for you!
Therefore, the judgement of the value of a field should come first and foremost from one’s personal judgment of how much it can help you. Not its potential resale or trading value.

In my opinion, anyone who invests money that they don’t have in a NFT because they are speculating that it may go up in price, are just speculators with poor money management skills.

Fully agree!
Before dropping 20k on a new kitchen, people should rather purchase the Skull…

Yep! One thing is that you can sell it for the value you see it fit. Another thing is people being team players and playing along the pre-agreed rules. Two different discussions.

No, such things are never obvious at all.

First, there is the need for transparency and being a team player in a group.
If someone intends to give out a purchase link to several other forum members, then it for sure should be first discussed within the project group so that all members are okay and aligned with that.

Second, the whole group should have a vote whether extra copies should be given out to people outside of the group who never contributed anything to the project! If individual members in a group keep the rest of the group in the dark, then this is not team play in my opinion.

Third, some people simply buy 4-5 copies to cover their own family and friends outside the forum.

According to my information you were lied to…

Those are your extreme limiting beliefs about money mate. There is real estate sold every day for tens of Millions and those villas are much less usefull than Dream’s fields.

Keep in mind that Captain can sell his own work for whatever price he wants. No one is obligated to buy anything or is entitled to getting it cheaper than offered. Same goes for the free market on Venly.

If you have a bad feeling about making a profit, then I recommend that you work on your abundance mindset.
If it would not be okay to make a profit with the NFTs, then Sammy and Dream would have told us or prevented that option in the first place.

Thanks. This is an important reminder.
The value of a field should come first and foremost from one’s personal subjective judgment of how much it can help you. Not its potential resale or trading value.

I understand what you are saying Bro.

I think this happens because the people who have been for a long time on the forum and working daily in it, kind of also “worked their way up” to where they happen to be. New members sometimes need to work their ways up too and cannot expect to be entitled to participate in every opportunity.

And then there is the idea that in a private group, people often want the best idea givers with the most track-record of experience, so that there is a higher chance that the best ideas create the best possible final product.

I think it is a fluid term as a community is defined by sharing similar values and goals or circumstances. All of which vary a lot within the Sapien forum.

No, there are people who are invested and comitted and those who are not.

And then there are also people who manifest their reality and those who only react to their environment.

Still, so many people here on the forum are always in “victim and reaction mode” instead of manifesting their desired outcome.
I mean, we have a several manifestation fields here given to us, even for free!

This is not luck. Those people are there because of work, comittment and manifestational alignment.

A limiting belief. Also, up for Dream to decide whether he accepts a submitted idea or not.

How about, instead of waiting for being rescued by some higher power, for people to just simply start contributing in the public area of the forum – then others will see their contributions and are more likely to invite them into their private projects… :wink:

Same experience here. That’s why private groups try to collect the people with the best ideas together so that the outcome of the project is as best as possible.

It will always be subjective and very much based on people’s own preferences and evaluation skills of what has how much value.
I see so many people here selling out their valueble NFTs for just a few bucks because they don’t realize its full value :cry:

Yes, so if we want to make Dream a commission gift, we need to sell our extra copies for as high as possible. It is a win-win for Dream and the NFT seller.

A great idea!

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:clap::clap:

Aye aye

Do you really think people would do this.? People keep it as a secret when they know it isn’t right thing to do.

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(For those who question price)
Then why judge High price for resale? Why say 5k is agreeable but not 20k?
When you create limited editions , it is bound to happen.

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I meant exactly what @lezeallion said in the post, if you are an old member and famous because you have been here for a while, you are seen readily someone who knows about things already and you will have no problem becoming part of any project and there is a very high chance you will not get kicked out even if you don’t contribute anything or even a little compared to others because your being old and famous may influence the group’s decisions. I’m not targeting anyone here, I’m just putting how people get swayed over such things like fame and name :grin:

Yes, of late there are too many I think I have noticed, I don’t even have enough money to afford one, wanted to participate and buy Thot but now I feel I’m missing out on so many things already. If it had been a field I would save and buy as the very next purchase! :smiley:

Amen to that :stuck_out_tongue_winking_eye:

Lastly, I personally like others to benefit from what I have benefitted from the work of Captain and all his godly work, so I’m all for fields and very less for NFTs. I’m surprised one person here does not even want to share the lists they use :rofl: I would not be surprised about this NFT making some people greedy but the exclusiveness of owning a rare item and forming groups to talk about it, while others who joined late can only wish they had one too is a bad place and feeling to have.

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Never. Universe will give you what you desire at right moment.
If you miss out one thing, it might provide you something better in future.
That’s the reason I don’t sit and cry over spilt milk.

Trust me, Dream keeps outdoing himself .
If there is anyone who could really undervalue his work, it would be his own future fields.

First of all, it’s a blessing in itself that I’m part of sapienmed irrespective of whether I own a NFT or not.
When I started, I had to save months of salary just to buy a tag.

There are many friends in forum who are still in college, not yet financially independent, but use free fields and gain immensely.

NFT is not the end.
You are blessed. You will get what you wish, just some other form, some other way.

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