Let's talk about NFTs & set some ground rules

Let’s talk about NFTs and the whole culture surrounding it. This is a conversation amongst us all so we can provide our honest perspective on it and get a clear and collective understanding of where things are at. And through this conversation, we could perhaps establish some ground rules that make NFT trading fair for everyone. Before I share my perspective, let’s go into the history of NFTs in this forum.

We began creating and selling NFTs as a way of protecting our content that was constantly getting stolen and shared. This is made possible through the scarcity of NFTs (Example: only 70 Major Blueprints of Power or so for sale) and through the confirmation of ownership when purchasing an NFT. In a way, NFTs make digital products into tangible products as you could also transfer ownership of an NFT to someone else. This essentially creates a free market system where NFTs can sold and traded.

And this is to everyone’s benefit. The ability to trade and sell NFTs you own grants you all much more freedom with the NFTs you purchase or trade for. These digital images/audios become things that you actually own.

The issue with NFTs early on was that when we would sell a certain NFT, it would be at a certain date and time… and sometimes, people from different parts of the world didn’t have good enough internet connection or time to have a chance to purchase one. They would sell out in 2 minutes and many people would feel they didn’t have a fair chance. So to give people a fair chance and even creative input, Cap’n came up with a brilliant idea to allow people to create NFT groups where they design NFT fields that only people from within that group could purchase.

This has worked well for the most part and we have gotten amazing fields all around from it. But it has certainly had its downs. Quite a bit of inter drama within these private threads.

These private threads have become like little private forums within the forum and let’s be honest, not everyone is fit to maintain balance and fairness in group projects sometimes. And it shows. I don’t blame anyone for anything nor am I disappointed with some of the drama I’ve seen arise in these threads… it’s just the natural consequence of lack of order in such threads.

And beyond the threads, there have been a few broken trades/sales. Transfer of ownership of NFTs requires trust and there have been a few dodgy things that have occurred that should have been avoidable.

Truth is, the downs are a very small part of the NFT free market system that developed here. The majority of the time, things go quite well for everyone. But still, although this is a free market system, I think we should maybe establish some rules Since this is a free market, I think we should all openly discuss this amongst ourselves. Nothing I’m saying here is final and are just my personal opinions and ideas for the time being. Let’s keep this respectful. I’ll start.


  1. I’d like to be added to all groups from now on. I have access to all of them but I don’t get notifications for them so I’m not caught up on what’s going on in most of them unless I look them up individually. These private groups are all in a sense, massive threads including many members here and as moderator here, I have to keep my eye on things to make sure things are fair and nobody is being wronged. I’m a neutral party and can help bring a balance of fairness if needed.

    I am solely speaking about NFT group projects by the way. Also… don’t be afraid to tag me folks. I appreciate when you do and I’m only here to bring balance, not takes sides and further any issues. Never feel like you can’t call on me. I’m here for ya’ll.

  2. If everyone is contributing, everyone should have a say in the group. I think people who put in the most effort and lead the conversation of a group should have more weight in their ideas/decisions of course. I just don’t want to see anyone get carried away with that weight of authority and just undermine other people. That’s all. Not pointing fingers and I’m just saying I don’t want to see this happening. On a positive note, I already see that when it comes to certain decisions, people are using the voting polls to decide things and I think that’s fair and well done.

  3. It is also up to the group to set up sell limits. This is sort of how guilds work and I get the whole concept of setting a sell price limit so that everyone has the same chance of selling. What I’ve noticed is some extraordinarily high price limits at like 7-10k… which is either to deter people from selling or for people to be able to make a ton of money if they sell. Some, its because that’s the value they feel the field is at. There’s many reasons why but… in my honest opinion, it just feels off to me.

    Technically, an NFT could just be traded. So someone could just get it for trading something that was way cheaper than that other NFT. The extraordinarily high NFT prices makes it very unlikely to be sold but more possible to be traded. But trading isn’t the simplest thing and someone may just want to buy an NFT if it were being sold.

    Some people are very interested in purchasing some of these NFTs because they are the ultimate dream field they always wanted… and maybe they missed out when the group project was announced or are new to the forum. But then they look at the price tag from someone selling and find it extremely excessive and inaccessible. This happens to many people. And heck, having these high price limits may even make some owners who really value the NFT tempted to just sell it cause what if they get lucky and someone buys it at those high prices?

    Anyways, it just doesn’t feel right intuitively and I’m just expressing my opinion on it. I don’t think this is something I’m going to make a rule on because such decisions are left to the groups when designing these fields.

  4. The question of how many NFTs can each person be able to purchase has come up quite a bit. Again, that is up for the groups to decide. Some people say that if you contribute more, you should be able to buy more copies. This whole metric of who contributes the most can be subjective though because someone may not post much in a group but write some extremely quality insights and schematics for a field and that one post be very helpful. I just think that everyone contributes, they should have the right to an extra copy or two or however many everyone agrees upon. It’s quite simple, as a group, decide on a limit to how many extra copies could be had (not the best idea to over saturate). Everyone says how many extra copies they would like. And then from that number, determine the total amount of NFTs for the sale.

  5. I think if someone doesn’t participate in a group at all. As in puts in no input, they can be kicked from the group. Here’s the reasoning behind this.

    I understand that there are some people who really would like an NFT but don’t have too much input, are a bit shy or don’t exactly know what to add. That’s understandable. But this is a group project where everyone contributes and when some people don’t put in any effort, it can feel as if they’re there to benefit from all the work put in. Even if that isn’t the intent, it could feel that way and it doesn’t feel fair to those who do put in work.

    There are also people who just enter groups, to buy NFTs and then sell them. Which could feel like people are there to just profit off of people’s work. Some of these people actually end up being big contributors even and people get upset that they got the NFTs, and went right to selling/trading them. I’ll get into that more for the next bullet point. Before I move on though, I will say this….

    I don’t think that people need to be super active either. Some of these groups have thousands of messages. Not everyone has that kind of time. I think so as long as you contributed to the schematics and check in here and there with the ongoings of discussion and add your two cents (sometimes certain questions or discussions require other input), then that should be fine.

  6. The truth about the NFT market is… once you own an NFT, it’s yours to keep, sell or trade. I don’t think we can tell people what to do with NFTs they rightfully purchased. Now, what this has spawned is people who involve themselves in NFT groups for the sole purpose of getting new NFTs to trade/sell. I know this bothers some people who are passionate of the work they put into these group projects and then to just have people profit off of it. It can feel like they don’t actually value the NFT and the work put in. But if these people participate in the NFT group projects and put in the effort of creating the NFT… it’s their right to sell or trade. Can’t judge or attack them for that. But…

    As groups, you all make decisions amongst yourselves that you all agree upon. When you breach those decisions and then go off and do things differently, that is a breach of trust. You are breaking rules you agreed upon with others. People feel wronged and they want justice. This is understandable. A possible consequence could be…

  7. If someone gets caught breaking upon agreed rules, they get hit with a badge of mistrust when it comes to selling/trading. That badge alone can bar them from future groups or even trades/sells.
    I think this would be fair because as I said before, once an NFT is in someone’s possession, they have the right to do what they want with it. It’s theirs. It’s not the groups. But breaking upon agreements is a breach of trust that can be publicized to show that someone can’t be trusted. That is a consequence that affects their future dealings gravely.

    The only caveat to this is evidence. NFT transactions tend to be anonymous. These inner witch hunts can get ugly with accusations thrown at people that may not be involved. I don’t want to see people get petty over things like this. It’s not worth the energy. So I would need evidence of broken upon agreements for a badge like this.

    This is only a suggestion for the time being and I’m open to ideas.

  8. As for trades, I think trust goes a long way as well. So this reputation system can align with trading too. If someone has facilitated at least 3 successful trades, then perhaps they can get the trusted trader badge?

    We can also maybe have trade facilitators, that for a fee, act as the middle men for trades (people with 5+ trades only).

    Then with newcomers… they just have to be the first ones to send. Only fair. And since they’d choose a trusted badge member, less risk for them anyways.

    Let me know your thoughts on this as well.


I am sure I missed several things but that is what this discussion is for. Let me know your thoughts on everything I mentioned above. Perhaps if there’s anything you would like to see different, any questions, any concerns… let’s discuss it all here.

PS: Are you guys taking the time to soak in the NFTs you get… they’re all pretty amazing truly. I just hope that people are actually using and taking in the ones they get.

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Me when I see such well-written guidelines… Thanks Sammy!

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:100:

It never happened to me lol, but what ? We’re gonna collude on pricing and enforce a council’s tariffs ?

:muscle:

@SammyG
Do we have to invite you on groups already started (at the end)? Or just new ones ?

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Thanks, @SammyG for this great set of ground rules. This should help alleviate some of the tense discussions around NFTs.

@SammyG One concern I have is this point. This could also make it where someone who ‘contributed’ more will get more NFTs and dominate the market with sales and trade. That seems off to me.

Also, should each community project be listed? In the past, there have been private groups created where no one knew about the project before it was released. :woman_shrugging:

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Like I said, nothing I mentioned here is concrete as of yet. This is open to discussion. Want to hear all of your thoughts.

@DR_MANHATTAN Mmm, I’d like to be on whichever ones are active. Not about to start spying on people and all. Just want to be present and skim every other day and see all is well. also… to just tag me if anything comes up.

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Wow, that’s a shame. (I thought that was just my inattention to NFTs.)

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@SammyG I have learned a lot from the formatting of ur post. I tend to write walls of text, so dont mind if I adapt ur format in order to make it easily readible for others.
Also, well thought out suggestions💪

@Starlight I kind of like the magical feeling of checking the forum and seeing new Community NFT being released, especially if I didnt know about it.
I mean I was rly excited to find out about Knowledge NFT🤩.

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That’s how these community projects started. There was a private group that most of us didn’t know about until it was released. That sparked interest in the idea.

I disagree that all groups should be made public because that could deter future groups from starting, or even cause tension amongst each other. I’m in 2 private groups right now, both have a similar concept but they take them in 2 different directions… Had The first group idea been made public, the second group may not have even been formed

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Thanks, Sammy. I’m glad you are opening up a forum to discuss this. Unfortunately, I seem conflicted about the topic and will have to re-group a bit before I feel comfortable enough to share.

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I think this can be solved if we were allowed to do more then one group of the same concept that way people wouldnt start joining for money as they know that somone can just make a new group on the same idea… I hope that makes sense but what am saying is to allow more then 1 group to do the same NFT idea. If that is aready allowed it seems to be a gray area in the fourm.

Ovs there is also a down side to this idea

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What I was trying to get across was that other people that might want to join a group to help create an NFT will never get to because these groups are already made in private and not listed. I dunno what’s the best path here…

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How would you envision that working?

Someone starts a group, completes it, then someone creates an imitation with similar, but different features?

Could you give me a small example of this in action?

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Sammy with the LENGTHLY post, I get where you’re coming from.

I found the pumping of new NFTs everyday (basically) kinda off, myself (can’t speak for others) it’s great that they are being created, many beautiful creations and dream Loves doing them, he’s having fun, there’s collaboration. But after some time I began to realize how will I appreciate and truly grasp the power of them if I don’t give them the time and energy to work with it.

The current state of the NFT is probably not most desirable but it’ll adjust itself.

As far as the community projects being created in private, I’m not sure that’s too ethical. of course that’s how the boom :bomb: started but at the same time some are seeking profits (which is fine) limiting copies and reselling at their desired price (which is also fine, the other party must agree to the trade)

I was part of 2 groups and quite frankly after sometimes it was hard keeping up with everything, it take a lot of work to contribute and that’s probably why I don’t find myself in many projects.

Let’s take a moment and breath, feel the gratitude and understand we don’t have to be part of all groups.

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I’ve suggested the idea of raffles as well in a group I’m leading, taking inspiration from @SammyG and his webinars.

A small number of copies will be reserved for the community. Those who pick the right answers will be given the time and can wait for us to finish, then they will be sent the link. Looking for additional opinions or suggestions on this.

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Ok, so here to speak in favor of the private group…

The first private group I formed started from a need I had for a specific tool. I approached Captain with my concept and asked him if he would consider a private commission. He said yes but there’s a 10 NFT minimum. Fine, I thought, there’s got to be other people like me who have need of this tool. I can easily sell the excess in the open market. Once in process though, it occurred to me that there may be other people who practice similarly and could use such a nifty thing as this. One thing led to another and soon I had my 5 other people willing to commit to 2 NFTs each at cost. (The thinking there was "one to keep and one to trade or sell - to do with as one wished, if so inclined - not as a “requirement” per se, but more as a suggestion). After that, we even expanded to a few more people based on the personal recommendations of the existing group.

The other two private groups I formed came about similarly. First by approaching Captain, getting his approval, shouldering the burden of risk, and then soliciting interest from the prior group and spreading out from there.

I didn’t require any “work” (because, first of all, I had my concept exactly the way I wanted it and anyway defining the “required” level of contribution is quite subjective, to say the least) but, even so, others in the group graciously offered their help, to write the presentation, for example, even though I was fully prepared for even that.

So nothing unethical about it. Just different.

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I mean im just going to say without hopefully offending any one that if Private Groups are being made is because when post is public its almost the same people joining.

So if private groups is wrong, unethical and dont give opportunities to others, what about half of the same people always joining every group and thus cutting the chances for others to join? Specially when the number is limited?

It is the same to me.

Ive seen people posting 2, 3 or more copies of the same (the very same person) on Venly the very day of the release … like come on…

Isnt that super unfair to the very same folks that worked in the groups to make an nft happen?

And then as their needs for money comes at them then they drop the prices for nothing almost?

Im not saying prices have to be super high, but the NFTs were also a gift from Captain for us to have as a good investment for the future where it could sell for a high price. So members in groups put all their effort to create something beautiful and unique, use more money than available because they want to invest and then one week later their fellow group members offering their copies for nothing.

There are a lot of people that are just here in the forum lurking, never contribute, etc and even other creators :laughing::woman_shrugging: yep.

So let them buy high on venly ey! :handshake:

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If I can’t start groups in private, I won’t be making many NFTs

I suppose a lot of other project won’t be made, the start can be messy and vague. It’s normal to want to chat with a few trusted people before launching a real project involving money and expectations.

Are we to keep people from talking to anyone before it’s all public ? Lol
It’s more strict than SEC guidelines

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My dude!

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I think im going to jump right here for a second.

I agree with you. But if members of groups request 3 copies or more its obvious the copies would go to other members at least 2 i think. And sometimes (its what i think might have happened and then it spiraled out of control) the member wont have the money to buy the copies themselves to then trade with whoever they had planned before. But by sending the link to those he or she trusted would only by 1, the person maybe ended up buying more (again a speculation)

However i understand it is a bittersweet feeling for the members, i have rejected several times to gèt copies on the releasing day, i was added last minute to a group that had all done already so i assumed they just needed to fill out more copies bought for Dream and i assumed that was talked before adding me.

It all turned out good.

Second group i accepted the offer of buying a copy through the link, was made by the person who created the group and it was a group’s NFTs done in 2 days.

Im glad and grateful they thought of me to get it.

I bought my one copy requested.

Third group had already done all the work extensive work, and then again i was offered a copy from one of the members that as far as i know fairly participates in the making of nfts the person has been in.

The person even offered me to join the group if i wanted to read all, i said not its ok, i didnt want to be intrusive just reading all the process for something i didnt work for.

But here is the thing specially because i profusely respect every group and work done.

I repeatedly asked if all members knew i was going to get a copy AND the link to directly buy.

Like i mean several times.

Answer was always. Yes!! Its good, they know, i ordered 4 more copies and they know ill give the link.
Me again, you sure? Because thats a big project. So could I comment my reviews etc? – sure! Up to you.

I decided not to give reviews. Out of respect for the process discovering how their precious NFT was working for them.

However i did now want to trade my copy. And i openly did it because im my conscience i did it all legally, respectfully and right.

I know for sure the member has a good heart and a good intention and i am again very grateful i was offered this.

BUT after all the drama that went on, i do strongly suggest not giving away the link to anybody.

If the members agree someone is buying more than 2 copies then as I said its obvious those will go to others as trades.

And thats ok :woman_shrugging: what is the difference buying for others extra copies than buying for themselves and then exchanging right away? Isnt it the same those who got it traded once it reached the wallet didnt work at all in the making of the nft…

But is more to avoid that someone not part of a group gets a link and then feels greedy or generous to get more or share with friends and that is totally wrong and the consequence is that members of groups end up without their copy. That that is wrong.

And i might not contribute in groups i end up getting copies but i make the effort to be thankful and share reviews every step of the way and in doing so indirecty i too contribute to the group i wasnt part of so the trades and sales happen faster. Thats even better help than members that hop from group to group dont contribute in the creation, buy copies just to sell them fast, never work with the nfts therefore no reviews…

So… dont hesitate to offer me copies in the future ;)

Joking.

Number of copies per person i also agree should be subject to their contribution in the making, the contribution in reviews, and not selling them for nothing in previous NFT.

That would cut a lot of wrong

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I’m allowing this to develop a bit further before I put in my two cents on some responses.

Just letting you guys know that this doesn’t mean the end of private groups. I only mentioned being part of private nft groups to ensure things remain fair and if anyone needs to @ me in the conversation to get a neutral voice in the room.

If you don’t want me in a private group or private nft group, that is fine. That is why this thread is open for discussion.

Now what I will say is this… I feel tensions boiling up in the background… and I would rather this not get heated. Let’s have a mature conversation about this and be open about our thoughts and feelings while respecting others as well.

Part of having expanded awareness is respecting and understanding another perspective that you disagree with. So let’s keep this civil. Not saying it’s gotten there yet but the energy is there.

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