You are still stuck in the illusion of time. There is not such thing really as “before” or “after”.
Also, reality cannot be grasped by logical thinking alone, since most of this logic is hardwired into the physical human brain. Conceptual realization and psychic perception is the only way to grasp higher concepts. Until then, it will all just be the usual human psychological circle jerking.
Yes, I didn’t want to go there but I meant ex-nihilo.
Out-of-nothing. Or created.
Evolutionism and creationism are indeed orthogonal.
You guys are not speaking the same language, talking it out is not gonna work
I hope you do win the Olympia bruh… 
share the message with your adoring public… I mean yourself haha
I think the bridge between @JAAJ and @anon8601412 is that the everyday reality for most people on this level of “consciousness” is a differentiated reality where time moves forward for the duration of a life, similar to one positive cycle of a sine wave; it begins at birth and ends with death, but consciousness moves forward. I think JaaJ’s point is that this experience is that there’s enough evidence that the something of “us” predates this life and that an objection based on linguistics or time’s arrow to that pre-existence is in error. The argument goes further, however. If time is the ‘x’ axis, then our higher self/real self or whatever we choose to call it stands outside of time in the same our pencil does the lines on a graph paper. We mark the line for our own reasons. We enter time in similar fashion. Heidegger seems to be saying that, as far as I can tell, we are creatures of time.
Oh yeah man i will haha I’ll try my best at least, it will be a fun journey!
I would be very at peace with that. I mean as far as my memory goes, I don’t remember anything before being born here so it’d be like that And that’s perfectly fine. However I feel about it now, whoever is here that cares for me just wouldn’t matter. I’ll just be nothing. But now that’s the conundrom for me.
I’ve become nothingness in some experiences (or at least felt I did) and came to realize that nothingness is the vaccum through which everything comes to exist. Everything comes from nothing. Nothing <> everything.
So in ego death, you get this experience. You experience the death of your ego and what comes after is you experiencing your consciousness as this thing that encompasses everything. You are everything wrapped in nothingness. I wish I could explain it better but it’s just the sort of thing you got to experience for yourself. (Probably will when you die 
)
But maybe you won’t. Maybe it really just is… a blank. And that is completely okay with me too cause as anxious as I might be about it now, I’m not gonna feel any way about it when I don’t exist.
It’s a funny thing though right? So hard to imagine not existing. Everytime you sleep, you wake up. But not ever waking up… you can’t even imagine it. It’s like so as long as the universe exists, you can’t conceptualize not being a part of it to some degree 
But anyways, both scenarios are fine with me.
Here’s an interesting bit of Lacan talking about the soul, the physical body and the unconscious.
Or you just learn to astral project consciously.
I say consciously because our astral bodies already do leave our physical bodies every time we sleep, we are just unconscious about it with our human incarnational part of the consciousness.
Anyways, what you will experience in the astral afterlife is pretty much almost the same as what you experience when making an astral projection:
You will still have your individuality and personality, you will still have your subconscious belief system and your made experiences. Since none of this stuff has been physical in the first place and also was additionally uploaded into the Higher Self real-time when you made all of these experiences.
The only difference between an astral projection and the final transition into the afterlife will be that with the final transition you will be free from the impulses of the physical body, your Higher Self will show you a life review and most likely a ton of family and friends from the past incarnation and from other incarnatations will show up to meet and greet you.
Since time does not exist on the higher astral planes, for them it will be as if you just left for a few moments while they will understand that you are just coming back from a 100 year long physical body experience.
All of this stuff is written in the hundreds of books on Near Death Experiences and Astral Travel Reports. But most people just choose to not read and stick to their assumptions 
This is the real power of the ego, making people choosing to not want to know this stuff right here and right now. The information has been out there for 50 years now.
But in the end, as Sammy said:
People can verify all of this by doing their own experience with astral projection. I understand that it requires dedication and discipline to achieve that, but it is totally worth it for the internal growth and experience of liberation that one acquires through this.
I’d say it is odd that this information comes from the same culture that reproduces it.
Now with internet and globalization it is worse.
How do you differentiate between an “authentic experience” and a “biased experience” from someone that was already exposed to these ideas in the first place?
It is like people tripping on dmt sharing the same experiences they heard from other people tripping on dmt.
There are scholars that believe that Christ was exposed to Hinduism or Buddhism.
And even if it happened, how can you be sure that the experience they had was right in the moment they were dead (before coming back to life) and not in the moment when they were still alive?
I’ve said it several times in all of my posts about life after death and astral projection:
You don’t have to rely on the experiences of others.
And then think about whether their experiences are valid or not.
You can start making your own experiences and then evaluate everything from there.
For many people, who are extremely rational thinkers, this would even be the better approach, otherwise they are stuck and circleing around in their logical thinking pattern.
Personal astral projection experience is key.
Once you’ve made that experience, you will experience the physical world and your awareness in it like being in a black-and-white cartoon dream sequence.
So…
Forget all the theory.
Forget reading about it.
Forget thinkig about it.
Forget trying to grasp it with the logic of the human brain.
Just make the experience yourself.
And one more time:
Techniques:
Unfortunately I don’t remember his/her name, but I heard this story of a scientist (a neurologist?) that did research on NDEs all their life.
Identified a brain part they pointed to as cause of NDEs, and of them being what/how they are.
As luck would have it, they had a NDE and were being monitored. Their brain basically failed on that part, convincing them NDEs visions are real.
If you focus long enough and with “purpose”, you will manifest an answer.
I’d rather not xD
While NDE scientist are doing a great job at acknowledgeging that there is “a phenomenon” and are trying to study it, most of them are still not open-minded enough to actually practically try having an out of body experience themselves.
This is like scientists studying food without having ever cooked themselves.
Like scientists studying sex, without ever sleeping with someone.
Like scientists studying magick, without ever actually doing rituals etc.
In my opinion most neuroscientists know a lot about the physical brain, but they fail to explain most phenomena associated with it, because they are blind to the bigger picture of consciousness, the astral realms etc.
These scientists are literally expert idiots / geeks / nerds.
The map is not the territory.
And with that, as so often materialist scientist confuse cause and effect.
The physical brain does not create experiences by itself but is merely a device of signal translation.
It translates “consciousness signals” from the consciousness that is you, down into the physical so that your consciousness can have the impression of operating a physical body in a physical world and by this making “a physical experience”.
The brain is nothing more than a radio device.
Everytime the radio device catches a certain program, certain electric circuits inside it show electric signals and these signals are what the scientists are measuring.
They are observing the physical symptoms, not the causes of consciousness.
Same thing with scientists who “measure” out of body experiences.
They are only measuring some superficial signals that occur as a side effect of the brain trying to translate the signals down into the physical.
For example people who are born physically blind, when the same people make an out of body experience, they can suddenly see everything.
Their physical brains never learned to process visual information through their physical eyes and their physical brains never developed the respective neuronal connections for processing visual input, and yet, they are suddenly able to see everything and in all the colors.
This is just one of many examples where many NDE researchers have a blind spot with, because it does not fit into their materialist world view.
This is simply because everything on the astral plane is more real and feels more real than here in the physical.
That’s why I always tell people that they have to make the experience themselves.
If people would make a fully conscious out of body experience it would be the most realistic experience for them and they would never doubt the reality of it ever again.
One day of vacation on an astral beach and most people would leave their physical incarnation immediately prematurely, lol.
The ego is doing its best to do everything to come up with a rationalization of the why, the what, the how etc. instead of actually people trying to achieve an out of body experience yourself.
With that analogy, people will do great mental acrobatics in order to discuss how pizza tastes without ever having the courage to actually eating one.
One of the problems that come up with that is that experience is shaped by the “matrix” or signifying chain produced by the rational mind.
That’s why kids can become obsessive about not wanting certain kind of food to the point that they vomit it when they try it just because they saw a cartoon show in which fictional characters reject that kind of food. So, when they eat that food it tastes like the worst possible thing ever, although it is not that bad for the majority of people that did not develop that taste.
The same happens with sex.
So, there is no “pure experience” in most cases and it is very difficult to discern a “pure experience” from a “biased experience” because the mind is always getting through the way.
You’d be surprised man, many psychologist and neuroscientist are spiritual. They are just less vocal than the few ones like Richard Dawkins.
Lot of them take psychedelics, believe in aliens and what not. But it’s their private lives and they separate it from the job of physical exploration.
Whether it’s good or misleading, that’s not what I’m about.
Just saying, if they talk about it, it will be labeled pseudoscience and discredit everything they ever done.
It’s funny watching some of them stop caring and talking about all that and they make it clear that many if not most of the leadings researchers are aware and or practicing.
Some of them work on psychic research in private/secret. There are groups that recruits with some well known researchers. They don’t publish.
It’s an ethical debate that happens a lot these days, whether they should talk about their own spiritual and psychic adventures.
Most of these guys are smart and curious that’s why they dedicate their lives to the study of the mind and consciousness. How many decades does it take for word to spread about OBE inside a small community.
How many of us here even talk about Morphic fields and magic in their daily lives ?
Not many, it’s taboo.
Not gonna lie, one time my sister was starting to talk about me and fields and she was making me look crazy, her friends were looking at me like a mad man. I said I didn’t believe in it lol
I used shady logical argument to “prove” it wasn’t true.
It happens, they were like “phew, it sounded crazy”, I’m like “yeah”.
In my opinion ALL experiences are biased and subjective.
Subjective because conciousness and qualia are the only real thing. There is no objective reality at all. Never has been.
Some of the stuff is based on agreement of collective conciousness, but still all subjective and defined by the respective group.
And biased, because everyone manifests their own personal reality bubble through the filters of their own belief system.
With that said, all I am offering you, by inviting you to make an astral projection, is that by doing so, you will find a reality that feels much more real than this physical reality here. Both realities are subjective, but the one feels much more real and impactful than the other.
The physical universe is a low vibe reality based on a certain amount of souls (consciousness fragments) who agreed upon the rules of it.
Relative to that, the astral realms is a higher vibe reality based on significantly more amount of souls who agreed upon it.
The physical universe is a tiny grain of sand compared to the astral world.
Also, there are tons of declassified documents, lots of psychic are hired by governments, pretty much all of them are legit scientists with PhDs.
It’s out there, these are real scientists. At least all those who worked on it believes.
It’s just not for the masses to know for now (according to the power that be). It’s an open secret that these are real phenomenon.
I can’t post on this thread for now, so I’ll add it here:
A quick addon.
So many people are “superstitious”, some of them I have known for years, I never knew they believed in magic. There are many researches on belief and how people are wired to believe in the supernatural, it almost always amount to the structure of myth and forces.
People who did drugs, people who are religious (by that I mean are seeking a genuine connection with higher powers, not culturally), kids, elderly.
History is full of offerings and the likes, it’s everywhere. Until a few centuries ago, these things were mainstream.Before microorganisms were discovered, almost every illness was thought to be due to supernatural forces. They’d go pray instead of seeking treatments. When plagues came, cats were burned as they worked for the devil. They had alchemy, rituals, ceremonies.
Science was pretty much banned and life on earth was considered just a small step of purification before going back to the “source” or their equivalent of it. Then people celebrated science and their life on earth as a sign of rebellion and it became a bigger force, but magic is still around. The pioneers of science often believed in the mystical themselves.
Looking on the short cycle, it might seem like something else, we spend our time focusing on technology and the novelty which we are the first generations to have. The world wide web was invented in 1993, that was exactly 30 years ago. If it was person, it’d be a millennial.
Humanity overcorrected, from interpreting every single thing as the work of the constellations, demons and angel’s work to simple physical causation. But these advances will most likely make us more spiritual and open good things, now social networks are losing customers, people are fighting porn, addictive food and I’ve never seen as many people deciding to be healthy.
Now, many people have been conned by charlatan and now they are actively fighting what they think is just organised trickery. We can’t underestimate that. A lot of guru and astrology reader are fake, most people won’t try twice.
I believe that the more people find the courage to openly speak about it, the more likely it is to cause a chain reaction of more people opening up.
I understand that free speech only exists for those who are financially free. The rest has to censorship themselves to a certain degree.
Yeah, it is.
It is open because most are too closed-minded to believe this stuff.
Most are literally NPCs with no free will and are doing what they are told.
If you would send everyone via postal email a book that contains all of the universes secrets and clearly says on its title “Read me and you will have and know everything”, still only 1% would actually read it, and only 0.01 % would actually apply it. LOL.
I think science knowledge (which is abstract and subjective) shapes our abstract reality based on general rules that apply for any limited theoretical framework but gives us some reduction of what is happening.
It is necessary to orient ourselves through the unlimited potential of possibilities we face.
Without it nothing stops us from living in a fairy tale with unicorns and ents, like people used to 5.000 years ago.
Yep, its strange to me
because its just like, okay its crazy and am saying it works, so whats the harm in trying it urself? but they dont even bother to try to listen to one, they mock it and then talk about how their lifes is this and that
