Pessimism vs Optimism

General Discussion
#1

I’d like to expand my perspective here. I’m curious about why cynics choose to think the way they do. I was cynical for much of my life, growing up in a crime-ridden area and seeing humanity’s darker side, which led to distrust and a pessimistic outlook.

Over time, I realized that how you perceive the world shapes your experience of it. I chose to see the good in people and adopt an optimistic perspective(Divine Spark helps with this, which transformed my interactions and made my life more positive, even in the same challenging environment.

Humans are both beautiful and flawed; we envy, hate, and harm, but we also love, teach, and grow. By focusing on the positive aspects, I noticed more of them in my life. Optimism became a self-fulfilling prophecy, aligning my energy with a positive reality. Pessimism works the same way: it’s a self-fulfilling prophecy that highlights humanity’s worst aspects, resulting in a more negative experience.

Life is a game of probabilities, where perception influences reality. Optimism increases the chance of positive experiences, while cynicism decreases it. Pessimism might seem like an easy, truthful path, but it’s not rewarding. Optimism is harder but far more rewarding.

I’m starting this discussion because I believe most cynics understand this. I think pessimism comes from seeing the “truth” about humanity and preferring not to be delusional. But when both the good and bad of humanity are true, why choose pessimism?

(Edited to pessimism from cynicism. Cynicism was the wrong phrase and a long discussion in regards to definition of the word ensued. Apologies.)

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#2

A student went to his meditation teacher and said, “My meditation is horrible! I feel so distracted, or my legs ache, or I’m constantly falling asleep. It’s just horrible!”

“It will pass,” the teacher said.

A week later, the student came back to his teacher. “My meditation is wonderful! I feel so aware, so peaceful, so alive! It’s just wonderful!“

“It will pass,” the teacher replied.

(well there is also sometimes a problem just going directly up to the transcendental stuff but that’s another subject)

but the thing is being really authentic unconditional loving or positive on a deeper level requires insight and clarity otherwise it’s just a phrase or gesture…or a mood which hasn’t any fundament

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#3

This is true. Although, I would say that I wasn’t particularly wise when I began being optimistic. It took a long time but I was basically ‘faking it til I make it’ lol. Took quite a long time to build that pattern naturally and that took taking hits from life and choosing to see the brighter side of the road ahead. And it was in ‘faking it til i make it,’ that the insights started to arise naturally.

Then the subjectivity of reality really started to hit me in that, you seriously can imagine reality to be whatever you want it to be and your brain/soul will attune to that and make reality be that for you.

So faking it til you make it is actually a pretty solid path lol. I used to laugh at people who would say that but it really isn’t no different from most reprogramming. As you walk that path, the insight and clarity comes naturally. And yes, your subconscious will certainly continuously test you over and over again. Cause as you say problems always come up and how you react to them, is part of what creates the pattern you exist in.

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#4

My personal understanding is this:

Cynism is a self-sabotage mechanism projected outwards onto others and onto the world. It is based on deep seated beliefs of low self worth and helplessness towards the world.

By projecting the self-sabotage outwards, the ego of the projector protects itself from having to do any change on itself.

The ignorance to one’s own issues (helplessness) is projected outwards as another variation of arrogance (false sense of self righteousness).

Where the projector subconsciously believes that “everything is doomed to fail” but is too fragile to admit it to themselves.

“I told you so” becomes their narrative.

“Look it was doomed to fail, I told you so, and now you can see that I was right all along.”

The deep seated issues behind this are the lack of resilience, being overly fragile, feeling internally powerless to change anything and feeling unworthy of ever experiencing something better.

Whereas optimism happens automatically, when you believe you can succeed in the world and when you believe that you are worthy of succeeding.

A cynist assumes that things will not work out BEFORE having the complete information about the situation and the others.
So the cynist actually proactively manifests for things to go wrong, because subconsciously he/she already decided that “it must go wrong at all costs”.
The cynist hates himself/herself and therefore the world.
This is heavy self sobotage!
And it is rooted in the deeper issues that I mentioned above.
(The reasons why people self-sabotage are mostly the same)

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#5

@JAAJ
You described pessimism though, not cynicism

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#6

could anyone explain what exactly is meant by cynicism here? I’m a bit lost since it has different meanings :sweat_smile:

#7

I see what you mean. These terms are often confused, also with “nihilism”.
My point is that all of these are simply different variations of the same subconscious self-sabotage.
What the waking consciousness and the ego think and feel in the end are just different expressions and the result of the same subconscious issue.
It is just expressed differently on the surface.
Self-sabotage being the “genotype” and cynism/pessimism/nihilism being the different “phenotypes” :slight_smile:

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#8

@Marie
I think optimism can be used to mean idealism here, emphasis on the good nature of the world not just humans

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#9

Lmao I also started getting confused haha :sweat_smile: But yeah, optimism from my point of view is acknowledging the negative and choosing to focus more on the positive. Cynicism also acknowledges the positive but chooses to focus more on the negative. Just 2 sides of the spectrum.

But there is certainly such a thing as unhealthy optimism and that is when you do not acknowledge the negative and and only focus on the positive. Denying the full face of reality can quickly turn into delusion.

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#10

so there is a healthy and unhealthy cynicism then ?

or is it just an easy, unrewarding path for the cowards lol

(paraphrasing here for dramatic purposes)

#11

@DR_MANHATTAN I’d really like your input here…but it seems you’re down to play. Will come back some hours later :joy:

P.S: How can I answer this but on the venting thread? xD…cause it turned into a vent as usual…

Well there is the unhealthy cynicysm. Healthy cynicism = you hurt others alongside yourself. Unhealthy cynicism = you can’t take bs anymore (even from yourself).

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#12

I was just thinking of that and due to me having no experience in that matter, I didn’t choose to comment. I can only take a guess so I’ll shoot.

I think healthy cynicism does exist but in certain circumstances. Like in extremely hostile environments, healthy cynicism is to be weary of everyone and be very skeptical yet recognize that there are still some good people out there. That is healthy and will get you to have the best potential experience in an environment like that. Unhealthy cynicism there would be to be weary of everyone and not think that there are any good people around. All people suck and terrible. That is going to create an even more miserable experience for you in an environment like that.

So yes, depending on the circumstances, I think there is such a thing as healthy cynicism.

#13

Come to think of it, I was in the healthy cynic category for most of my life. I did grow up in a hostile environment. But it’s not like it was a concentration camp or one of those African villages run by warlords.

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#14

So, one is positive, the other is negative.

The negative can be healthy and appropriate in “hostile environments” then be bad in “friendly environment”. So it’s an environmental thing ?

Your thinking is good or bad so long as it matches your reality. Is this what you meant ?

Sounds almost cynical

#15

Most of what people experience as “optimism” or “pessimism” or “cynism” or anything like that, be it an entropic or a negentropic experience are already the result of processes that happened deep in the person’s Subconscious Mind. Long before they know it consciously.

These experiences, projections and perceptions with all their accompanying feelings and thoughts are the result of what the Subconscious Mind already decided.
There was almost no free choice in these.
The Subconscious Mind already decided and provided the respective projections and perceptions.
At least, in most cases and for most people.
Takes a lot of mindfulness and free will to override the pattern and reprogram yourself.

Subconscious Belief of Low Self Worth → Self-Sabotage Pattern → Projection & Manifestation & Perception of the respective reality → expressed as Cynism or Pessimism or Nihilism or Scepticism in the conscious mind

Subconscious Belief of High Self Worth → Self-Improvement & Growth Pattern → Projection & Manifestation & Perception of the respective reality → expressed as Optimism etc. in the conscious mind

All of these also come together with the Subconscious Mind Co-Manifesting the respective reality as well. Because perception also equals manifestation. There is no passive perception of something.

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#16

I wouldn’t say cynicism is ever positive really. I think a better word would be balanced. As in you acknowledge positivity but choose to focus your instinct on the negative. In very hostile environments this can be useful as it is a rather protective.

But in most of the modern world where we have food, shelter and protection, cynicism doesn’t quite benefit people. Maybe it does though and I made this thread to better understand why choose to think this way if it makes your experience of reality far more negative than it has to be.

#17

I love what you’re writing.

You deciding to believe and project what benefits you the most, that’s the cynical view.
If you believe that you’re the only one doing it, you’re idealistic.
But if you think that other people behave in the way you’re saying you behave, then you’re cynical.

You’ve given up on objective truth and are manifesting your self-interest so deep it changes the way you see the world around you.

It doesn’t mean good or bad, it’s an acknowledgement that people are motivated by self-interest.
How much ?
Enough to change the way they see the world, manifesting their subjective truths

Because it’s more rewarding for you to believe that, so you do.
What can be more cynical than that ?

#18

Maybe you’re cynical to this day after all

#19

Lol no need to get sarcastic with me man. It’s just a discussion.

I get your point about self-interest being a major motivator, but acknowledging it doesn’t have to lead to cynicism. Recognizing that we often project beliefs that benefit us can actually foster self-awareness rather than cynicism.

While cynicism suggests self-interest as the main drriver of human behavior, it’s possible to see both the good and bad in people. Optimism isn’t about ignoring reality but about choosing to focus on potential and positivity. This choice can lead to more fulfilling experiences and doesn’t necessarily mean you’re delusional.

Optimism can be empowering, not because it denies the darker side of humanity, but because it highlights our capacity for positive change and connection. It’s about shaping our reality by cultivating empathy, altruism, and genuine goodness in ourselves and others.

In balancing realism with optimism, we create a more holistic view of humanity, acknowledging both shadows and light. It’s not just about what benefits us personally but recognizing our interdependence with the world. This heref embraces both self-interest and our potential for positive transformation.

So yeh, the choice isn’t just between cynicism and idealism but finding a perspective that acknowledges self-interest while embracing the potential for growth and connection.

#20

Ok. Let’s say I’m some Ayn Rand fanboy and I believe that people are self-interested and that’s for the best. If I believe that higher ideals are used to crush our freedom and right to pursue our individual happiness. That type of guys.

Isn’t that optimistic cynicism ?

All I’m saying, cynicism and pessimism are often together but that’s not necessarily so.