Spirituality x General Consensus on BDSM? (18+ Only)

To give you one example, Let’s say someone has Sado Masochistic tendencies, should that person try to purge those urges, replace them, maybe ignore them, partially fulfill them or go full crazy (in a safe way, of course)?

Also, do you think Masochism is or can be an impediment to healing, since you are supposed to love your body - or you can go both ways, on one hand accept that Masochistic part and on the other hand, offer love to yourself through fields, hooponopono and other means?

Do you find any such urges, whether to like to receive pain or to give pain to someone else (in an erotic/sensual and consensual environment) to be lacking in the spiritual, energetical or psychological departments?

Can you heal and have such thoughts and be involved in such practices?
Is it only for lack of self love, trauma or something bad or maybe karmic that some people have such needs?


Due to this subject being quite sensitive and me being not quite comfortable talking about it, I will not answer personal questions (I guess), but I would like to view your perspective, view and understanding on these subjects.

(I might need to make a new profile in the future, just to let all of this mess behind, maybe as an anon)

Thank You.

Maybe we need a new category, to talk about sexuality and maybe other urges, addictions, etc.?

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Hey man there is BDSM thread already, why not discuss there?
My personal take on this is that everything is ok as long as everyone involved is consenting adult.
The thing about sadism however is that consent might take away from it in some cases, due to nature of what sadism is.
If that’s the case its probably good to find someone who is a good actor and try roleplay lol.
Maybe masochism can be an impediment to healing, or some expression of self hate, but perhaps it may also be healing/therapeutic and a way to give up and lose control for a while.
Similarly, sadism might also be therapeutic perhaps as a way to experience being in control, having power etc.
I also wonder how much of sado/masochist desires people experience is caused by either entities or porn?
I know someone who appears to be born sadist. Without any sexual trauma or abuse involved, and before any heartbreak had a chance to happen.
Maybe that’s some past life influence? Or entities? That person had sexual/sadistic fantasies before even knowing what sex is lol.
So is that person doomed? Doomed to never experience full sexual satisfaction because experiencing it would require them to hurt others, perhaps without consent?
I think masochists have it a bit easier because they can hurt themselves anytime without remorse and without hurting others

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This!

Furthermore…

Not 100% related to your question, but read ALL the comments under this video:

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That’s not always the case, except if You argue soul remebers trauma from past lifes and thus someone is born as a sadist or masochist

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Because it’s more a personal issue or rather personal issues and through a new/dedicated thread I think I have a better chance to receive more answers, I guess.

Yeah, I know it can be therapeutic (sort of) through a liberation of sorts, contrary to what anyone not familiar with the subject might expect.

I have had Masochistic urges before knowing what sex is, then after puberty I developed sadism as well (lucky me lol - instead of growing harmoniously and maybe get rid of stuff, I added another madness).
Sadism was dominant for years, then I became more masochist again, then Idk, I guess I reached a balance lol, sort of.

Not without remorse and always asking why the heck and how to change it/myself…

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@JAAJ
I’ll watch the video and read the comments later, since I’m tired and need to go to sleep.

Guys, Thank You for Your Answers.
Gotta go now, as I have also slept very little the previous night.

Cya later.

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All of these are unhealthy expressions of the “control” topic.

Control is healthy when it comes from your inside, aka where you acknowledge that your control over anything is the reality that you are manifesting.

When you don’t realize that you are manifesting your reality, you deviate to look for external means of control as a compensation.

All these sexual control behaviors and fetishes are unhealthy variations of external control seeking or projecting.

Sado = enforced external control over someone
Maso = projected powerlessness / giving up control to an external source

Both are externalized versions of control.

= in both scenarios giving away your power.

Giving away power = low self esteem / trauma.

Because, no high self esteem being would ever give away its power. And also not externalize it.

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I stayed just to read your reply.

Interesting, might be the answer, maybe.

Have a Good Night/Day.

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Again, some people experience either sadistic or masochistic fantasies without being traumatized.
Perhaps they are unhealthy expressions of control topic, but I disagree that they are always caused by trauma

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Trauma is almost always hidden in the Subconscious Mind.

This is the Subconscious Mind’s way of protecting the conscious mind from relieving the intense pain of it.

The fantasies that the conscious mind has, are just the results or the symptoms of deeper internal subconscious programs.

Your fantasies are not “YOU” and they are not “your Personality”.
They are just (artificial ) thought programs running through the awareness of your consciousness.

Indeed, the Subconscious Mind could even encourage the indulgance in such fantasies in order to keep the protective mechanism in place and functioning.

This is a mechanism very similar to self-sebotage behaviors, where the Subconscious Mind also pushes the consciousness to engage in that self-sabotage further – all in order to keep those protective mechanisms in place – because the Subconscious Mind literaly is thinking that it is saving your life by protecting you from that severe traumatic pain.

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I think that the pre-potential sexual trauma have covered that.

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I agree with what You say about trauma. The thing I don’t agree with is every case of fetish/fantasy being caused by trauma.
I also agree with what you say about Your fantasies not necesairly being real You.
But there might be many causes of them, traumas surely are one of of those causes, 100% agree, but they are not the only one.
Some of them might be biological, some psychological but not necessarily traumas.
I don’t think this is simple subject with established, objective facts explailing entirety of what it is, and saying BDSM=Trauma feels a bit dogmatic to me.
No offense, perhaps I am wrong and it really is that simple. I see a lot of truth in what You are saying. I just feel its not the whole truth.

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We don’t always get to choose our paths
Sometimes we’re passed down things we can’t understand.
Sometimes we get lured in and develop our own darkness.
Either way, you deal with it best you can.

Feelings of inadequacy; never being good enough, or having received or inherited damage, causes you to project how you think you should be to cover up what you think you aren’t. It can also cause you to take on things to own that pain, to “control” it, as @JAAJ mentions. We’re all trying to make the pieces fit, but this process, when the pieces that make up the foundation aren’t perfect, gets corrupted and warped. You end up with fracturing, splitting personalities. A person at war internally.

Satisfaction and power. How to reconcile the two? I’d say you either integrate or renunciate. You either grow around the obstacles and incorporate them into your greater structure and overcome and surpass them, or you drop it completely and never look back. There’s no halfway. It also doesn’t have to look like how you’ve been told it has to be, that’s just the current path of least resistance. You either have to own what you are to transmute it, or you have to radically disown it. I wouldn’t say replace, but a fundamental change in who you understand yourself to be with a thorough rebuilding of the underlying psychological structure. At the very least, a confrontation with the shadow self, an I to I in the mirror. Not running away from what you are, but seeing it and not letting it run your life from the shadows. Making light of the darkness: often this phrase is used in the comedic sense, but it’s about exposing the underlying echoes of the unconscious self, else it will continue to pop up and disrupt you, even if you think you’ve consciously changed for the better, however you wish to be.

I get the image of Cobb from Inception, where his shadow takes the form of his dead wife who constantly breaks into his reality until he deals with the guilt surrounding her death, laying her to rest once and for all. I guess what I’m trying to say is, accepting or leaving, it’s all the same thing just the path is different. We own it completely, drop it in whole, or let it own us. Possession is part of it. Self-fulfilling contracts we don’t consensually agree to that we become bound to follow not knowing it’s not really “you” you’re dealing with.

Overall, I’d say most of us dealing have been set up to fail, but we have to deal with it lest we let it fester or God forbid pass it on again. At the end of the day, it’s not 'You," it’s an imposition, placed upon for no reason other than. Accept/grow around/incorporate or cut off, never replace or repress. In my experience, replacement never touches the original part in the same way as the imposition is able, and we know repression just makes it worse. Both leave you trying to fill a hole or scratch an itch that can never be truly satisfied, and this leads to a cascade of further blockages. It’s not fair, but here we are. Transmutation of tragedy.

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I think many underestimate, how deep trauma and behavior patterns are rooted in the subconscious mind.

Usually covered by all the coping mechanisms, shame and anxiety. JAAJ did a great job in building the self love stack.

Are you listening to it consistenly, at all? @SoulStar33

I’ve shared my take on it in the other BDSM thread.

For me, it wasn’t only engaging in something based on low self esteem ( both of us) but at the same time re-traumatizing, solidifying the unhealthy experiences we’ve already had,thinking we would do each other a favor.

I still believe that D/S and bondage can be very healing for both parties, as long as mutual respect and boundaries are established beforehand.

Bc it’s about allowing/letting go of control in a safe setting.
It takes a lot of maturity to follow through with that, on both sides. What you usually see in porn and in rl, is nowhere near that.

Hurting each other on purpose, is abusing that power, even when the other person is programmed to enjoy it.

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This is a very interesting topic and I couldn’t shy away. Have so many more questions and things to get to but this is a fun one. I don’t have all the answers to this topic either. But of course, just want to share my subjective opinions on it.

This is indeed true. I think everyone here saying that most of it derives from traumas or insecurities are certainly right but it isn’t always the case. Sexual Imprints are sometimes… very random and honestly, out of all the imprints, I think sexual imprints are probably the most permanent. I think they might be possible to remove but they are very, very difficult as they are very freaking solid. Like hard as metal kind of solid.

I’ve already known this for a long time but came to more terms with it as I’ve worked with people over the years… Using fields, they had therapists and all kinds of modalities they’ve tried and they could not ever remove the desire. Sometimes it isn’t something like BDSM but something annoying like getting pooped on or licking toes. It’s something you sort of just get stuck with unfortunately. Very, very few people are ever able to fully remove their sexual impulses.

But since we are talking about BDSM… my personal opinion is that ‘sex is play.’ It is a fun activity and we all find it fun/pleasurable in different ways. We all get our sexual imprints in different ways. Some through trauma and others through very random life events early in our lives. Now, with BDSM, the power dynamic of submissive and dominant is part of the play. It is fun and not always indicative of being a powerless, insecure person. The trauma may have incited what the person leans toward sexually but that doesn’t define their sexuality. Just like our parents and environment may have incited lots of things about our personality but our parents and environment don’t define our personality. Our influences aren’t who we are. They just lead to who we are.

And yes, trauma for a lot of people creates who they are in many ways. Our experiences shape us. The unfortunate truth is that the trauma is part of our shadow. And when we learn to accept and embrace it and not distort our beingness, that is how we overcome our trauma. That is how we own it.

I know people in the BDSM community and it’s all about sexual expression to them. Sure, for some of them, it stemmed from trauma but being the dominant or submissive just becomes what they are drawn to sexually. It is imprinted and they accept and they play the game. Outside of sex, it doesn’t mean they are insecure or submissive to the world. They just find the most comfort and pleasure in playing that role in the bedroom. In fact, I’ve found some BDSM subs to be some of the more confident women I’ve come across.

Typically during sex, there is the feminine/masucline dynamic that is expressed through submission/dominance. This is also the same in gay couples. There is usually the more masculine of the couple and then the fem, top/bottom.

Sexuality is a dance and the roles of the leader and the led are not always fixed. Some men for example like being subs and some women like being the dom in bed. Some women like watching their men have sex with other women and vice versa. There are thousands of kinks and the people who tend to embrace them, end up having the most fun and fulfilling sex lives.

But of course, there are horrible kinks like pedophilia or rape (like actual rape, not rape fantasies) that just end up causing lots of harm. That is why I still think pursuing a way to remove sexual imprints is worthy. Some imprints are far too damaging to keep.

I personally don’t think BDSM is one of those though. I know people in the BDSM community and will admit to have engaged in it with it before. And it’s simply what ‘gets the person off.’ Now of course, behind everything we do, there is subconscious reason for it. But it isn’t always nefarious or damaging to the psyche. Much of my personality is subconscious and no matter how much of my ego dissolves, part of it is going to be fixed in a certain way. Same with dream, I hardly recognize him sometimes with how much of his ego dissolved but he’s still dreamweaver. Still the same kind of talking and thinking I’ve come to know all these years.

Sexuality is one of those parts of our personality that tends to be… very fixed. You can either embrace it or likely be sexually repressed. As someone mentioned, if both people are in on it and it’s all consensual, I don’t see the issue.

Now, if it’s non consensual (pedophiles, rape), I actually feel rather bad for such people. You will either have to accept sexual repression or have to take drugs to calm the impulsions. Lots of psychotherapy and lots of retraint. I’m starting to think there might be a light at the end of the tunnel though. I do believe reimprinting of such desire is possible with psychedelic therapy. It is slowly starting to get legalized so I’m hoping for therapists to use it and start trying to tackle sexual imprints.

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I´ve actually thought about tagging you here.

That´s the reason why I´ve differentiated between dom/sub and sado/maso dynamics.

Power dynamics are natural, as long as we act in the realms of duality, and as long as consent is given, I see no problem there.

However, a person that is assuming one of these roles, based upon unreflected trauma, is not doing it from a place of free will/true consent.

If a partner has difficulties to stay in the present, pain can also act as a tool for grounding. But that´s based on a different intent than inflicting pain on her/him.

Imo, being a sub doesn´t necessarily equals having less power, being weaker, less confident etc.

Assuming mutual consent, the sub has the power of allowing the dom to lead her/him. Letting go, being able to trust, can also be a part of confidence.
Or, saying No, setting boundaries. It´s both part of the same coin.

If we talk about the “baseline” (meaning mainly to completely healthy), I´d agree to a certain extend. Thing is, how many people are that? Probably less than 1%.

BDSM acts as a meeting place for many people who´ve experienced sexualized violence and cope by “accepting their fetishes”.

Nearly none of them is truly “themselves”.

Take porn, trauma, societal brainwashing, drugs, hormonal imbalances etc. out of the equation, and see how people completely change their (sexual orientation).

I know that shadowwork is completely changing my sexual preferrences, and many old fantasys are fading away, as I heal, love and accept myself more and more.

There are fantasys and then the things that are congruent with being loving towards yourself and your partner.

This is a very personal topic which carries many limiting beliefs, and results will differ dramatically for everybody.
But imo, it is absolutely essential to do the necessary shadowwork, before engaging in such practices.

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How do You know?

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I’m going to try all sorts of fields and everything that I can to get rid of such patterns; they exist, I find pleasure in them, but as soon as I’m not under the “spell” - it’s like a possession of sorts, it actually is, an animalistic and unwanted part of me expresses itself, and I can enjoy sex without any BDSM also, it’s just something that I wish I never had, and no matter how many times I tried to accept it, it always leads to tension, an internal struggle, since what I identify to be the real me does not include BDSM (maybe it is due to some sort of trauma for me or maybe something else, Idk, but I just don’t want it)…

I just feel ashamed of it, especially Masochism, (but also Sadism) and I just want to change my impulses to more “normal” ones or at least avoid that part, since I just don’t like it and it leads to an internal struggle and i dont need more struggle…

As you said, maybe BDSM is not as horrible as other sexual kinks or tendencies, yet, since I know that I can do “better” and not succumb to such low impulses (fortunately, I’m not all BDSM, I’m “vanilla” as well, since I can find sexual pleasure through “normal” sexual acts as well) - again, maybe some people enjoy being Dom or sub, but I want to liberate myself from such pleasures…

Not really, unfortunately, due to some horrible Virus trouble and other health issues and other needs (hemorrhoids, eyes, brain, fungus, point of no return taking quite the time, then I do chakras work plus chakras fields, etc.) - I focused more on the whole and on certain physical problems, but I did listen to self love fields (mostly self love and acceptance and now the new love/self love fields from The Flow Album), yet not to stacks, especially big stacks, but maybe I need to listen to Jaaj’s Self Love Stack.
For now, breathing, viruses and brain are just more important, I guess, plus, there’s a difference in my wants when I listen to brain fields, something changes, those BDSM urges are weaker, same when I listen to self love fields, and that’s why I probably need Jaaj’s Stack.

Autosuggestions and subliminal also seem to have a positive effect, by diminishing unwanted stuff.

Exactly.

I can’t integrate, thus renunciation seems to be the answer.

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I don’t quite agree with this. Like I said, I’ve engaged in BDSM before and the girl was definitely… herself. Even more of herself if anything. Like I said, these kind of imprints are… a part of people. Some embrace and some reject. And this was certainly a person who was past the degree of self love and acceptance. She had all of that and she still leaned towards these things sexually.

I know you said nearly none of them but this is a grand assumption to make. BDSM becomes a part of them in the same way your interests and personality are a part of you. In fact, I’d say the BDSM tends to experience an array of pleasure that most of us don’t even get close to experiencing. Their sex is a serotonin/dopamine explosion.

I can agree with this. I think self love is essential and is very necessary. I’d even agree that healthiest sex comes from a place of self love. So I’m definitely with you on that brotha.

Thing is the healing of such traumas, means loving yourself despite it. Accepting who you are, what you’ve grown to like and what you’ve become from it. Sometimes, through that self love, comes embracing these sexual kinks. So your advice would likely lead to a lot of people embracing their kinks.

For most people, they are stuck with them no matter what kind of work they do.

’ Moreover, as with sexual orientation and gender identity, kink/fetish/paraphilic interests are relatively immutable . No matter how ego-dystonic, it is unlikely that any type or amount of therapy will make these interests disappear’

Like I said, we’ve also tried to help people with fields and subconscious reconditioning. Self love… all these things. It didn’t work.

Related and non related at the same time, we had a homosexual from saudi arabia (or one of those strict muslim countries) wanting to fix his homosexuality and make him straight. We tried and even made a custom field for him. Nothing worked man. I felt bad because I can completely understand wanting to be straight if you are Muslim and being gay is against your beliefs… especially in a strict Islamic country. I would want to be straight in a country like that as well.

Sexual imprints are just… almost impossible to remove. I’m not trying to be hopeless but these are just my personal opinions on the subject. I apologize if I’m being a negative nancy. I’m typically the guy that believes anything is possible haha. But as I said, I think it might be possible with psychedelics.

Of course, people who meditate heavily for 10-20 years and become one with their subconscious mind through all kinds of esoeteric practices can have great potential in reimprinting themselves as well. But the likelihood of most people being able to do that is like less than .000000009%

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Which is completely fine.

My point isn´t that kinks are bad in general, but that many people engage in them without knowing and accepting themselves first.

That leads to many engaging in unhealthy activities.

I believe that porn plays a very big part in it, as it is build to push the limits further and further into the extremes.

My sexuality was way more “innocent” before it, and since removing it from my life, while doing tons of healing, I can see myself slowly moving more towards my pre-porn state.

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