Well, that Santa fellow doesn’t know that he is magick, so he won’t believe in it 
.
so would that mean then: yes, even laptops hold their own soul/consciousness because it is made up of metals?
and if metals have souls and consciousness as well, how would the concept of ascension apply to them; could they ever escape the level they are currently at like, i.e. humans?
(I know my questions sound ridiculous but they need to if I want to expand my understanding on all this)
well, there are alchemical oils with soul in them like the gold oil of the Sun. So there’s that. I don’t know how it applies in laptops but sillicium maybe has the same potential. Not a soul but the potential to have one.
Hmm
So what about free will and them then- do they have free will? Or no, is free will separate concept from the soul. I assumed it was since I thought the concept of free will is contingent upon the intellect but after reading all this
Fairly possible I’ve got it all wrong lol
Are they also subjected to samsara (recarination)?
I mean wouldn’t they be since they have a jeevan?
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You are trying to understand something while looking at it from a wholly human perspective, then ascribing human specific things to it.
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does this mean then that the original post (do robots have a soul) was a trick question?
I don’t know the original intention of the topic of course, but sometimes it’s worth it to have a conversation for the sake of it and to share ideas, without necessarily having to conclude.
Except for of you write an essay/paper, it must have a “conclusion” section 
Keep in mind also, time is experienced through our senses (the way or body is built), so 10 thousand years for something that does not experience time per se the same way as we do, wouldn’t “feel” like 10 thousand years of stagnation.
It’s just hard to imagine because you only actually only know the world that you have experienced (rest is stuff we made up to full the gaps)…
We experience everything through our senses.
Anything that we cannot perceive through our senses, we can only theorize about or blindly believe someone who described a theory as to “how it is”.
Creating concepts and wanting to like them,
Being able to only think in terms of “this or that” /opposites, these are human limitations and natural to how (most of) our minds work.
(Side note - perception can be “sharpened” and I have no doubt the captain, and some other people on this forum, perceive more of the world than I do.)
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Best answer to this I have is that a program can have an input to act by itself.The laptop is the body and the program can be a free will example.
But for single material I do not know seems a little bit of a risky question to get answered because someone must have that specific knowledge which means they saw a metal have free will to act as it pleases. Which the best answer here can be that a metal decides to have metal properties?
Not in my knowledge just logic thinking around it
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Wait this is it. Your response is the exact answer I needed
(this topic with that free will thingy I commented is my PHL540’s topic. Totally confused on it because exactly what you said- its ascribing human things; its far too narrow minded)
Bless your captain badge Nemo because you wordify things so good thank u thank u
You know whats insane Monkey,
The santa looking dude Dennet (from that video) says that-
But to him he’s convinced we are just that- the senses- because it comes from our brain (and to him, therefore, we have no soul (since we are just our brain) and that there’s nothing beyond the material plane/ 3D). It’s insane how our perspectives can split so drastically from one another.
(O & thanks to you too @anon51404939 I appreciate the effort lol)
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Living in loops
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“The piano doesn’t murder the player if it doesn’t like the music. I’ve told you, Robert, never place your trust on us. We’re only humans.”
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If we are all one, so are robots, right?
Well, it depends on what you consider to be a soul. It’s a bit like the typical discussion about whether plants suffer or not (because they have no nociceptors but glutamate) when you cut them or pull them up… Or even the discussion (more “serious” from a moral point of view) about whether a zygote or embryo suffers or not (until the eighth week, they say) “As it has no central nervous system, it does not suffer”. Well, we little human beings… seeing it from our perspective is very treacherous and very comfort zone.
Anyone interested in this subject virtually has to listen to this AI conversation.
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Reminded me of this movie
so you know…trust no AI.
I’m not gonna attribute any sentience to any AI in my lifetime…that’s for sure.
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I don’t think AI can ever become sentient at all.
For the reason that one cannot program qualia with code and math.
No qualia = no sentience.
Qualia is a property reserved to consciousness itself.
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Saying AI or X lacks quaila begs the question. On the other hand, it’s hard problem that offers few crumbs on which to build the affirmative case (I’ve made arguments above hinging on presumptions, but did not try to make a straightforward case.) I just going to try a little bit more and then ask for help.
One model of consciousness is that it is emergent quality of complexity—mostly the idea is that any primitive nervous system can give rise to consciousness, but, in theory, it could be even simpler.
Another model, common to religion, is that an independent consciousness attaches itself to a biological organism; reincarnation and possession are notable examples.
I guess most people in the world think one of these. (I’ll take the thread question of the ensoulment of machines or AI to be a more refined question, but ultimately one dependent on the question of whether consciousness can arise in a machine or AI on the first instance.)
Obviously, the emergent path, if that is the path of consciousness, is available to AI and robots, as they can create stimulus-response systems that could give rise to awareness.
The attachment path might be available to machines or AI; it an simply an empirical matter whether disembodied consciousnesses have the “hooks” to machines or code. My guess is that not all disembodied consciousnesses can do that, but there might be a specialized type that can.
Perhaps someone in the forum with experience on the etheric or astral realm can report if they’ve encountered a machine/AI consciousness. Lots of people here muscle test things or talk to Arcturians or servitors. This doesn’t seem like a truth that must hidden. None of those tools work for me with anything approaching reliability (it’s me—not the tools), but someone (perhaps many people) can provide some clues. We could use some data at this point.
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I believe it is a common philosophical fallacy assuming that quantity can ever turn into quality.
If you stay on that code and math level, no amount of complexity increase can ever turn it into something of a higher quality. Increase of complexity simply means that you are still on the same level but the stuff now contains more data.
I would go with that model, knowing that anything biology, chemistry, physics etc. is just matter, which can be expressed with math and code.
So it is really the consciousness (qualia) that animates the code (matter and energy).
But how would that be possible?
A stimulus response is just an algorithm.
A reacting to B.
It is math and code.
Even trapped within the illusion of time where a “before” and “after” seem to exist.
At no point does reacting to stimuli create qualia.
An algorithm can create, process and collect all the stimuli and responses up to infinity – and still it would never have qualia about what it is doing and what is happening there.
Matter & Energy = Information / Code / Math / Algorithm / AI level = Quantity = not actually real and requires consciousness that animates it to operate
Consciousness = Qualia / Sentience / Conceptual = Quality = what is real and what animates matter and energy
I believe this path is what is happening.
As mentioned above I believe that it is consciousness that animates matter in the first place.
I mean that’s how aliens operate their tech, how they fly their UFOs and how even energetic servitors work.
It is a conceptual tapping of consciousness into the tech (matter/energy/code) and telling it what to do.
That’s how consciousness creates and programs morphic fields.
The tech itself remains just code and energy but it can give feedback back to the consciousness which then can process this feedback impulses and experience qualia.
The important part here is that the attribute of qualia remains reserved to the consciousness.
The consciousness is using the matter only as a tool to experience itself.
An AI could never do that because there is nothing that animates it and that would give it the qualia / sentience to experience it in the first place.
That’s how the physical biological body operates as well and how we with our consciousness are collecting physical experiences in the first place.
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