Sometimes we disagree and feel the need to voice our opinions. Nothing wrong with that per say, however these often end up derailing threads and bothering other users. I figured it will be easier for the moderators to know where to move these back and forth. Not a one-off vent, not quite a dispute, a debate.
Please be civil,
We may even make a top 10 in 1 year
If you don’t like seeing this in your feed, you can set it on “mute”.
I’d like to tell you that Jordan Peterson is wrong, not only about his theory, but also his knowledge on politics and his practice as a clinician (he’s depressed and takes tons of medication).
I’m saying this as someone who actually watched more than 100 hours of his lectures.
This happens because he is a Piagetian, Nietzschian, Jungian & Kantian, his knowledge about XX century lingüistics, ontology and epistemology is virtually zero.
Which leads him to confuse gender with biological sex.
He often quotes Freud but ignores completely that heterosexuality and also homosexuality are socially mediated through subjective structures that do not belong to biology at all, because sexual energy and drive is genderless and sexless before the constitution of the ego and sexual identification in children, when it gets organized within a shaped structure of meaning and social relationships.
Identity is not prior to the constitution of signification and ego.
Therefore, there’s no real “sexual identity”. Even heterosexuality is not a “real sexual identity”. Even the transitioned person that seeks to be de-transitioned is not seeking “to go back to a real sexual identity”.
If there’s an LGBTQ+ movement is because there’s people, like Peterson, that still believe that there’s a trascendental access to reality that dictates how things are, including sex and identity. Which is false, and believing so will make you subject to any ideology, like his.
Peterson’s ideology is complete, that’s why he relies on a “divine individual” to justify it. The dude needs to get introduced into serious gaps in his reasoning before he goes completely insane.
A thread to surpass the venting thread!
If some of you want to help migrate off topic posts faster to the debate club, you can flag them.
I’m not exactly encouraging more debates, but if you must, please do it here.
Understandable.
Subjective plot-twist on the scientific objectification of the world.
To believe in the reality of the external world rightly or wrongly. Demonstrating this reality satisfactorily or unsatisfactorily, assuming it expressly or not, such attempts from Man, unable to seize its own ground in full transparency, presuppose a subject initially without a world. This means, insecure of his world, that deep down he first has to be sure about a world.
It is not necessary to prove the existence of an external world. Rather, it must be shown why humans, tend to first bury epistemologically the external world in nothingness and then to force it to resurrect it through demonstrations. The reason for this must be sought in the fall of being-there, in the displacement of the primary understanding of being as an object.
I don’t know about sexuality, nor I will try to define it for others, All I know is that sexual urges, inclinations, whom we are attracted to, comes natural, it can’t be forced.
Now, anything else, even if i read certain books, they are old, old data presented and we are facing new discoveries, in all fields of Science.
I remember that I watched a documentary about certain species, they lived in water, no idea what they were/are, they change their sexuality/gender quite easily, each one fighting to impregnate the other, and the one impregnated becomes the female, for a while.
Nature is Wild, so so Diverse and always adapting and Evolving, we are part of Nature, genes are part of Nature, sexuality is part of Nature.
Now, on the whole subject of sexuality and lgbtq, there is only one single thing that I dislike, children being taught that it’s OK to change their gender and later, after a certain age, they are encouraged to do so (it’s not right to teach them such things, at an early age; an adult is entirely different business).
That is the only problem that I have with the whole movement, otherwise, I don’t care - anyone can do whatever they want, but not with children.
Sexuality should not even be pushed that early, kids should live their lives carefree.
I think kids should be raised without any enforcement for any sexual orientation and let them be on their own.
I mean, why fill them up with baggage they aren’t even aware of?
This includes heterosexual baggage, like making male kids play rough with male kids and not able them to play with dolls, and female kids play passive games with other female kids with dolls and not being able to play rough.
That’s equally wrong, but it’s not for some people because they’re still influenced under the ideology of nature. What is nature or natural? Who knows. Statistics show it? How it can be, if statistics replicate what society had been doing a lot, does that mean that what society does a lot is natural? So, if black people in 1980 statistically do a lot of crack compared to white people, does that mean that it’s their nature? I don’t think so.
Agree.
Well, we would still need some labels, after all, so, at least until they reach a certain age, a female born can be called a girl and a male born can be called a boy.
There are people who disagree with this.
We can’t give them numbers either lol (some think that’s progressive, giving people numbers, after all we have parent 1, parent 2… Anyway).
I’m inclining towards Conservative and Christian values (certain values, burning people for heretical thinking was not what Christ taught), yet I’m not against anyone, so I’m actually centered (on the supposed spectrum of right and left) on these issues.
Now, I’m also into Yoga, Energy Healing, Fields, Etc. - certain Christians would say that I’m not even a Christian, but I am, at least culturally anyway.
And so, I reached other related subjects lol.
Chinese tradition has a really nice way to solve this issue.
The name they give to their kids changes across time, according to how they feel towards them. It’s not a solution, but it prevents parents from objectifying their kids and put them more and more into boxes that kids won’t be able to get out later on in life. That’s how you get so many people that are very good at elementary school & high school but end up working at a 7-Eleven their whole life.
Imagine the cultural and symbolic charge of having the name “Mary” as female in Western civilization lol
Well, Idk, anyway, traditions definitely change, but westerners have their own traditions, I don’t think they should adopt everything from the east or only be full science team or any other choice.
The west, if anything, has been good or bad lol, with adding new stuff both for themselves and on the world stage.
Anyway, at this point, I have to admit that I don’t have the solution to names, but I’m asking, why change/abandon everything?
Certain things work or still work lol.
Anyway, I have no idea what good or bad for others, yet alone for society, these are just my opinions (BTW, I’m so flexible thst I easily change “teams” lol - people might be confused, well get used to it lol - Im not “right” or “left” lol…).
Sometimes Good or Bad even Karma is relative.
If you shout to stranger “Fck you!" then they feel annoyed or irritated, then you may get bad karma.
But if you shout to your best friends the same words "Fck you!”, then their reaction is laughing and they feel you are just kidding, then you will not get bad karma. Even you might get good karma because you make them laugh.
So we just need to see where situation we are.
Not all, but many things that are symptomatic and damaging for subjectivity.
Before the scientific revolution, subjective problems were minor and rare in medieval societies, because meaning and Truth had a different form of organization in each subjectivity, which was mainly attached to revelation and God.
There was no depression, bipolar dissorder, schizophrenia and many mental illnesses are the product of the loss of meaning, excess of identification and ideology of productivty caused by contemporary scientists and capitalist societies.
For example, hypochondriac disorders that rely on an objectification of the body, and the paranoia associated with spontaneous biological causes of disease, stuff that didn’t exist before we started to rely so much on science. People weren’t thinking about the possibility of growing a cancer in a vacuum (because according to medical sciences, it can happen to anyone at any point in life out of nowhere - and there you have hypochondria), and probably they didn’t get cancer as often as people do now.
There are things that need to be deconstructed for people to achieve a healthier state of mind, and many of these things are related to the effects of scientific discourse.
On another subject lol
Karma.
I don’t like it.
THE only good part is that someone who does harm will get their share, sooner or later, but isn’t Karma a Spiritual Debt System Anyway?
Karma = Bondage
Karma = Spiritual Slavery
That’s how i view it.
I don’t like the current debt slave system on Earth (financial one), nor do I like the “superior” laws either.
Debt is debt.
Slavery is slavery, no matter the name.
A Sovereign Being has no Debt, has Zero debt.
A conclusion that I can reach is that we are not actually Sovereign, if Karma rules, heck, whomever or whatever sits Atop the Karma System Rules over us.
Sure, we might think we are free, we might go from one place to another, do certain things, but a Higher Power is Dictating stuff, and Idk if it’s for Love or even for our “Evolution”.
Maybe it is All for Good, hopefully anyway/I truly hope so.
Anyway, as a Spirit we might have more freedom, at Higher Self level more freedom, but as long as theres a Law, You ain’t Free.
But maybe it is intentionally set/done so, to Evolve, to have Consciousness Reach New Heights, new possibilities, Idk…
You want freedom that much?
Destroy Saturn planet. That celestial body regulates law and as long as it exists and we still use this human bodies, we never have absolute freedom. Our life is most controlled by system or matrix.
Like Banana, even if you dislike it, doesn’t mean it doesn’t exist. Same as Karma. Dream creates Karma crucible field, he has much more knowledge about the existence of karma and how karma works.
And you know, the purpose of the Enlightenment/Evolving to Higher Consciousness? So that we someday, in astral or material form, we become god ourselves. So that we have our own planets, our own solar systems, or our own galaxies controlled by each of our selves. We are free to control our own realm. One enlightened person has one realm. We become sovereign being. Because the Universe expands. It will never lack of materials, planets, and galaxies.
Happy ending right? Don’t feel too tired of what happens in this earth. This earth probably is not ours. The earth belongs to someone/something else which has power to control it.
Also don’t ask me where this information come from.
You don’t have to believe me.
Just enjoy your life 
Even that I wouldn’t call freedom - it’s a huge upgrade, now you gotta take care of innumerable life forms lol.
Congrats.
Anyway, no answer is good for me.
Maybe this one.
Anyway, Thank You for Sharing/the comment.
Love is the Highest Good we as humans and possibly anything else, can achieve, I should focus on loving more and debating less.
I should do that - that way I’m happy.
Debates = more misery for myself or at least some good answers, but no practical change (for me) - heck, I should stick to Being Positive and Loving, I learned how to do these and there is so much to explore in this lovely world, besides misery, hate, victim mentality, frustrations, etc.
I have these baggages, all of them.
I need to clear my mind and soul from my suffering, not just express it, since I can’t see improvements this way…
Back to Meditation, Chakras work and fields, I guess.
And maybe more Silence (of negative and unhelpful pattens).
I promise to abstain myself from spreading negativity and countless thoughts, it doesn’t help me at all…
Man, I STILL NEED A TON OF Work on Myself…
So much Suffering…
Does civil war applies too!
just kidding
I wasn´t sure if I should write this, but you´ve encouraged us repeatedly to challenge you and your views, so for the sake of our boths growth, and everybody who´s lurking, I´ll do it.
Also this is something I want to get off my chest, once and for all, more for my mental, rather than my emotional peace.
If you see this post as offensive, discriminating, peace disturbing, whatever, you or @Dr_Manhattan @Rosechalice feel free to delete it.
Now…
…Since you´ve quoted JAAJ:
And weither JAAJ nor I have said they should get otherwise.
We both have expressed a nuanced views on this matter, not for the first time.
On the contrary, JAAJ even mentioned on a different occasion that non-hetero orientations are totally fine (as long as not perverted), as a response to somebody who felt gay but wanted to change.
What people like us don´t want, is to treat people differently, solely based on their sexual orientation.
Like you know… equals.
We don´t want to associate with people that base their whole personality/view everything through the lense of skincolour, heritage, sexual orientation, social affiliation, victimmentality and then claim that others are discriminating them. It´s their own insecurity projected outwards.
Even if we assume that it´s not, this whole mentality of filtering your life solely based on the factors mentioned above, completely takes away from the ability to interact with the human/soul itself.
@MonkeyOwl I´ve seen your post while writing this one. I partially agree with you.
These points are totally true and valid. The people we surround ourselves with, and the content we consume are our own responsibility.
Thing is, I´ve been doing this for years. No TV, newspapers, radio or social media (except here),I´m using adblockers, YT unhook, all kinds of stuff to avoid negative programming, and ended more than one friendship over it.
I´m still encountering people that are like that.
When I interact with family members, people at work, my neighbours, read some online news on a are occasion…
Is it really just my own beliefs system?
What happens online influences people, which in turn spread it offline.
People are changing, laws are changing. Society is changing.
It´s not just some “echo chamber” that we can fully ignore.
I´m not ready (yet) to leave society behind me and go monk mode in the mountains .
If that´s considered “bitter”, then so be it.
…
And no, it´s not just a few extremists. This thinking and brainwashing is seeping through every aspect of our societys, from kids up to people in their 60s. There is no clear line between “normal” and “extremism” anymore.
I know that we both could waste our shen for hours discussing this, without getting anywhere so I´ll just leave it at that.
Again, I´m not sure who exactly you are reffering to with this.
I´m pretty sure that JAAJ and others are very well aware of grey areas.
The moment ideology get´s pushed upon somebody by force, it becomes tyranny and looses it´s right for tolerance. Doesn´t get any more black/white than this.
You are doing this yourself here right now. You see something as a threat to the forum and what you would like it to stand for, and take the measures you see as necessary, to protect the peace of it.
So you apply the concept of certain things being intolerable, just using different parameters for it.
While I´m not agreeing with your views on the matter, I can understand this, bc I´d do the same in your position, based on my values and beliefs.
On this one I´ll agree with you. I´ve used to be a promoter of radical free speech, but at this point I believe that a certain level of maturity and self esteem is needed to make it happen, without too many downsides.
Really? Not sarcastic, genuine question.
The majority of the posts I´ve read here are more than encouraging and helpful. You´ll usually have a certain amount of dissonance between people, but taking into account the amount of souls from different walks of life, that are coming together in this place, all at different stages in there development, I find it to be extraordinary civil.
That being said, maybe I don´t see them, maybe you and the mods have to continously have to delete posts, and also I´m not seeing the pms and group chats, so maybe I am wrong on this.
And for the record, if people are actually putting others down solely for their beliefs, race, sexual orientation etc. (no matter who!) I am all for stopping this.
But again, what do you see as “Anti”?
I´m asking bc nowadays pretty much everything and everybody that doesn´t celebrates certain beliefs and people, is considered “anti”, “hatespeech”, “extremist” etc.
Is posting a logical meme that makes fun of hypocrisy considered “Anti-Trans”?
Intention matters yes, but words do too. Change the meaning of words and you change peoples perception. The majority of people isn´t operating on having dealt with most of their trauma, having developed strong psychic abilities or critical discernment.
I assume you´ve read books like 1984 and Brave New World. I urge anyone to read them aswell.
So I get that you are big on the intention. But can you always be sure that you are applying the same rules to your own judgement?
Who says your´re reading the energy right?
Not just projecting your own experiences and beliefs on the matter?
I´m not sure who you are reffering to with this.
I know that posts like mine or the last one from JAAJ, are a response to an increasing decrease (what a sentence) in freedoms, that gets more and more prevalent in western societys.
Unfortunately, many won´t see how it will affect all of us at a certian point.
And by the time they´ll see that no gouvernement, company, WEF or other organization really gives a shit about them, but only uses them, it will be too late.
A part of me is thinking that I should really stop giving a fuck about anything than myself and the handful of people I associate with, focus on my growth, money and freedom and nothing else.
“You will own nothing and you will be happy”
Yeah, maybe the human race really deserves everything thats coming to it.
Another part of me is genuinely sad to see what is happening globally.
Because I believe we could be better than this.
I wish humanity could move beyond these low-level-shit. Believe it or not, but some of the people I´ve encountered here, really gave me hope for that.
People like you @SammyG, Dream, Dr Manhattan, JAAJ, Maoshan Wanderer, Lunamoon, Rosechalice, Desiree, and others I can´t recall rn.
Maybe society will have to come crashing down a few times again, before we reach a higher baseline.
Wrong, answered above.
With all that being said Sammy, I understand your position at least partially.
Maybe you won´t believe me, but I actually do.
I don´t agree with you on that matter, but I understand and respect your decision.
You are a leader and carry all the responsiblitys that come with it.
I know that you are genuine, fuck I don´t I´ve think barely read somebodys energy as genuine as yours.
You have a vision for a better world and want to see us all evolve. I believe that and I can´t not love and respect you for that.
Also (even if not that important for you), Sapien Medicine is a business too, and in some way this forum is a representation of you and Dream.
If people post things that are considered controversial, it not only affects your vision of unity, but also potentially your reputation and finances.
I get that we aren´t just having a close sit-down in a pub.
There are many eyes on this place. Some members won´t speak up, many are just lurking, some don´t even know what this place is, I get it.
…
I´ve contemplated this for a while and realized that I´ll have to continue my growth elsewhere, and would like to ask you or @Dr_Manhattan / @Rosechalice to delete my account.
Not just bc of the current development of the forum, but other situations that have occured in my privat life since the beginning of this year.
Nothing personal, no hard feelings.
When I´ve arrived here, I had a lot of resentment and other aspects I really wasn´t proud of.
After spending over one year in this forum, utilizing fields, doing introspection and interacting with the community, I can say that I´ve grown alot and truly become a better person. Internally and externally.
I want to thank you all for that.
@SammyG If you remember, I´ve promised something to you and Dream. Even if that doesn´t mean anything to you, I intend to keep my word as soon as I´m able you.
And I genuinely wish all of you guys the best, in every walk of life, wherever your journey might lead.
Especially you @SammyG, @Captain_Nemo @JAAJ @Lunamoon22 @Maoshan_Wanderer @Dr_Manhattan @Rosechalice and everybody else that has helped and teached me in one way or another, supported me in my growth and called me out on my bullshit (sometimes even by just saying nothing).
You guys rock, I mean it.
I´d be happy if you understand this post in the spirit it is intendet.
Much love 
You are very welcome, i hope you come back! All the best