Does heaven, hell, retribution etc. really exist?

Spirituality
#1

So I’m reading the book ,rose of the world" and the author explains what he sees with his spiritual sight: demonic worlds, upper worlds lf the light… there he also describes the soul, how it can sink into demonic worlds or go up into higher worlds filled with light etc. He talks about demons using the radiations emmited from human lust and that certain acts(too strong sexual live and sexual pleasures, murders… ) lead to the soul falling to demonic worlds for suffering(f.ex. temporary) Its very complex but my question ist: How does it fit in with the teachings from other spiritual people, who claim that there is no hell? How do different people explain different things, tough there is one reality? The author also describes that there are various examples of famous people, wars etc. and he shows their afterlife and the combat between the forces of the light and of the dark. HE COULD SEE IT ALL. How is it possible then to say : what you perceive as reality is influenced by your own vibrations and you have free will to the decide the reality, there is no karma in afterlife if you dont belief in that etc. How do these teachings fit together? @SammyG @Captain_Nemo

I mean, some people didnt believe in karma and the author still describes their afterlife. Where is the truth? Are there demonic worlds where people can be trapped? Why does some people talk about it and other spiritaul people say that somethikg like that doesnt exist? What is the truth about the spiritual reality?

Edit: I am not a sceptic of your wisdom, I’m just trying to comprehend why there are so many ,truths" and how does it fit in that someone really saw certain aspects of spiritual reality and metaphysical forces?

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#2

I’ll let other, more knowledgeable forum friends answer your main question. I did want to help you with this piece:

Have you ever had the experience where you’re with a few friends, and you all witness some thing, and then later on you all describe that thing to another friend who wasn’t with you? Have you ever had an experience like that?

And when you have that kind of experience, did you notice how you all seem to have experienced that thing in different ways? You might think it was “tall” and your friend might correct you and say it was “wide” or “heavy.” And another friend might say it “sped up” when you thought it was going at a constant speed? Have you ever had that sort of experience?

And these are your friends, so they’re speaking their “truth,” right? It’s the same thing, but each one of you is experiencing it differently and isn’t that what makes it a “truth” (lower case-t “truth,” as opposed to a capital-T objective or absolute “Truth”)?

And since this happens so much for us in the see-it/hear-it/taste-it/touch-it physical world, where we have the most practice sensing and perceiving things, doesn’t it make sense that this same thing also happens when we travel “beyond” the physical realm?

So, when I look at things from this way (and I haven’t even gotten into how our own life histories influence how we interpret things), it makes sense to me “why” there are so many different interpretations of these types of “truth.”

Just something for you to ponder as you have this conversation.

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#3

This is a great question.
I can only reply from current personal understanding and having read a ton of OBE and NDE books as well as some personal OBE’s:

The astral planes have many different layers.
Each layer has its own vibration.
Lower vibe levels usually allow the souls there to manifest “hellish” experiences.
Higher vibe levels usually allow the souls there to manifest “heavenly” experiences.

But it also gets more complicated because there are not just different layers, but also different timelines and alternate probability realities.

People usually end up or go to those planes that are the result of a combination of various factors:

  • the person’s personal vibration
  • the person’s level of consciousness growth
  • the person’s awareness of their choices (potential free will)
  • the person’s actual skill of making those choice (actual free will)
  • their Higher Self’s bigger plan
  • “Karma” (which is in most cases unprocessed and unconscious beliefs and bagagge residing in the person’s subconscious mind)
  • and many more, I am not aware of all the factors myself

I think that in the end, the only real thing is consciousness and therefore all experiences on all levels and planes are always subjective.

Experiences can appear “objective” when several pieces of consciousness temporarily agree on a shared reality setup.

This is how the physical universe and the astral realities exist in the first place.

Things like energy, matter and information are only tools for consciousness to create those platforms (worlds) as means of doing experiences.

So with that, there is no objective hell or heaven, just like on physical earth, simply souls manifesting their personal experiences and their personal reality bubbles.

The source allows for all types of experiences, hellish and heavenly, because this is the only way how real free will can exist and how the source itself can have free will itself.

Hope this helps.

Also, here is an interesting video on that topic:

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#4

You create your own reality. You will experience an expanded fractal of that reality beyond death.

Make it a good one so it can be fun.

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#5

The only thing that can be known to be real is Consciousness. They call it the substance out of which EVERYTHING is made.

The universe is infinite.

The entire universe is consciousness, you are consciousness.

So, consciousness is infinite, no limits whatsoever. There are now laws, consciousness can do anything.

(These are things you can become directly conscious/aware of)

Now I’m gonna explain it the way I read it in a book (and I hope I’m remembering correctly)

Let’s say consciousness is the screen on which the movie (your life) is being played or “lived”

So, consciousness (the screen) can play anything it wants (just like any movie) and the movie/your life is whatever you believe is true

That’s precisely what’s happening with those people, they believe hell and heaven, or karma are real so consciousness takes on the form of heaven, hell, and karma and then it’s real to them. They are not Truth because those are distinctions, which the human mind makes, such as Good vs Bad. The human mind can only come up with relatives truth, good is relative, bad is relative, heaven and hell is relative, karma is relative. It’s all relative for whomever imagines it to be true.

Absolute Truth operates in a non-dual domain. Absolute Truth is that Everything is One, you cannot compare it with/to something else.

Absolute Truth is Consciousness :D

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Random thoughts thread
#6

I love you guys :heart: Such excellent answers between @WellBeing , @JAAJ , @SorcerySupreme and @anon36920264 . I agree with all of them and my answer lies within much of what they said as well. So luckily, I won’t have to create a skyscraper for this thread :smiley:

I personally believe reality to be extremely subjective. Reality is but a spectrum of infinite possiblities and we experience the version our consciousness has come to experience/believe in. After death, when reality becomes ‘immaterial,’ I think our consicousness can sometimes follow our beliefs onto the afterlife and take us to these realms created by collective unconsicous (hell, heaven, ext). But really, I think the afterlife is very subjective and different for every single one of us depending on our journey up until then. These guys said it better than I could!

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#7

One thing is for sure: we don’t know what is really going after what we call “death”.
Most importantly we don’t know what is really going on before “birth”.

And that’s the issue: why are we amnesic? what the heck is really going on? given that religions have been using beliefs like hell, demons, satan, and karma to control people: I tend to remain very skeptical of the truth of any such concepts.

One thing that becomes clear with research: the devil hides always in the details … and the post birth amnesia is the most important “detail” to focus on. Anything else is a distraction.

As far as “psychic seeing”: that remains the word of one man. Should it be enough to settle a definitive understanding of reality? I don’t think so. The closest to a scientific method when it comes to assessing psychic information would be the organized remote viewing collectives. Hell and heaven are irrelevant in such circles: the truth about life on earth is more sinister.

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#8

Please replace “we” with “I”.
Just because you don’t know does not mean that others are the same.

And for further reading I recommend this thread:

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#9

Yup. :+1:

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#10

What you are sharing is just scratching the surface of what we can know about the afterlife (and the before life).

If I understand correctly: we “chose” to come back to earth, “forget” about everything we know, and learned voluntarily to ascend and grow. This is a very misleading and common idealogy.

I will repeat: very few people on Earth (hence the use of the collective “we”) know what is really going on. And it’s definitely not about Earth as a school for souls: very far from that.

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#11

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#12

eyes2

devil

welcometoearth

But sarcarsm aside, I see where you are coming from and my answer to you is that you need to look at far more data AND personal experience to see through all of this.

Don’t believe every theory that the negative part of the matrix throws at you.

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#13

We do know this.

#14

I’d start with what comes before the question.

What “is”? Is the most forgotten question of it all regarding to metaphysics.

By the time we give identity and being to stuff we are already deluded.

Many spiritual traditions ignore these questions, specially new ageism because they are as religious as any other religion.

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#15

We are all God with a capital G. Those who use the power of Divine Observation (that is to say the Divine seeing through your eyes) will have an exponentially greater effect on the collective consciousness.

From my understanding, in this life…

I can command someone to “Hell”, which is an immediate activation of the divine/infernal fire, which is purifying but tortuous for those stuck in their evil ways.

The holy fire of Seraphiel and the infernal fire of Lucifer are not that different, they are simply ways of explaining a process depending on the consciousness and karma of the person being subjected to it.

“Good” people often enter such lower states as their ego clashes with their divine purpose.

I have said this before and I will say it again. The divine within me is just as responsive if I am mending a broken bone in real time, taking out someone’s knee in real time, or fighting in an otherwise low vibrational physical fight to the death.

The divine is everywhere. God enjoys incarnating as everyone.

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#16

Can you tell more? It sounds a bit interesting.

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#17

Does it mean that if someone just raises his vibration, he will resonate with higher planes and therefore dont experience lower planes like hell? Is it that what you mean?

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#18

For the most part these aren’t other places, but representative of states of mind.

I’m currently relatively broke and under threat of physical harm, but I’m quite happy to be in the middle of this turmoil (I know why I’m here and even for the most part how it turns out).

If you are with the people you are supposed to be with doing what you are supposed to be doing, you will be happy to be wherever you are, no matter the adversity.

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#19

So the other night I did some channeling for the other guy still here on the commune. I contacted his mother, and didn’t have the heart to give him any information about her location. When I found her, she was in purgatory, “for being a good Catholic,” she said. She has since moved on.

My father (who wasn’t a Catholic) went to purgatory as well.

And I have a whacked out and true story about a priest who was giving partial last rites and collecting souls for some darker purpose (all the souls were released, but he wouldn’t leave the dark astral space he was in, as he was terrified of moving on without collecting his quota of souls).

I have yet to dig too deeply into it, but it’s worth mentioning.

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#20

That’s…well, I don’t know how to word it.

Personally, even though my fellow Wiccans think as a whole that heaven and hell aren’t real, but constructs of Christians, I can’t completely say that.

I’ve been an atheist, been forced and manipulated by my mother to become Christian, then became a Wiccan by my own choice, in order to try to master my powers.

On top of that, my brother, R, asked a medium on Facebook to find out why his grandparents kidnapped him and my other brothers (1 I’ve disowned), and she said that while their souls refused to answer, she said that they were somewhere very painful (R said it basically meant they’re in Hell).

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