Wow. This forum is on fire 
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PS: I have been invited to share criticisms freely. I didn’t jump out of bed with a mission. I said it was his forum his rules before.
No personal attacks so far and there shouldn’t be any.
But any items justified away by flaws must give the same benefits to the other party to be equal, fair, equitable, tolerant and understanding.
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I admitted to the possiblity of them being hypocrisies and accepted that if they were, I accept being a hypocrite. I am not ashamed of being wrong sometimes. But… then I analyzed my statements and saw flaws in your logic. I saw that I still behaved within the realm of my pricinples. I pointed out exactly how and you haven’t addressed any of it.
‘That guys DOES NOT know’ Is not an assumption. It is a statement of fact even if that’s not what you intended. This is partly what I’ve been talking about for such a long time. You guys don’t seem to understand the power and subtletly of language. Maybe you were just expressing your opinion but the person on the other end is going to take your statement as ‘this guy is saying I am stupid and have no lucidity over my thoughts.’ It will be taken as an insult.
Saying I don’t think someone is credible is expressing your personal opinion. That isn’t a personal attack. I would have never reacted to you had you said that. And then, you kept expressing this sentiment with further statements such as ‘he won’t process it’ like he’s a dumbass. You were being very dismissive just as @Nice2knowU pointed out.
Saying someone doesn’t know what they are talking about 90% of the time is a matter of discarding most of his words are are unnecessary drivel that shouldn’t be considered by anyone. Had someone expressed that about you as well, you would have also been insulted.
This is a forum for discussions and if you don’t agree with someone or are even willing to have a conversation, publicly dismissing them as being uncredible and also as a waste of time because they can’t process anything, is insulting. You literally added nothing to the conversation and just belittled someone for speaking their mind. This is a discussion forum. I don’t care what crazy ideas people have. We are here to discuss them and not insult people for having them.
We can argue semantics all day but like I said, I don’t think you apologized to me privately out of fear of me banning you. You have never had that fear that with me over the many years of you snapping at people in the forum and me and you talking privately about it. I am not talking about heidegger. This guy is a new. When I speak of repeated offense, you have done this many times in the past.
Although, I will admit it has been a long time honestly. So perhaps you have changed. But I called out the behavior anyways cause it’s a past pattern making a present appearance. If I do hypocritical things or act out of hand, I want you guys to call me out. I am open to criticism. I don’t shy away from it or get triggered when you guys make comments about me.
What does bother me a bit is you guys talking behind my back which I’ve been made aware that some of you do. I’m very up front and direct. You have an issue with me then speak up about it. Talking behind my back is rather cowardly in my opinion. And no, I don’t read your guys pms because the very last time I really did that at a large scale was because I had to with the OM situation. I had to read people who I considered to be friends say some heinous things about me. I was weaker back then. That stuff hurt. I don’t want to read ya’ll pms again.
This is a topic about money. It’s on topic.
Only because our thoughts have energy doesn’t mean everything still isn’t made up. Where does that energy come from? Nowhere.
Nothing is real my friend. I have expresssed this more than anything truly. Nothing is true, everything is possible. Just repeating it once more for goodness sake. The manifestations of consciousness are just like the manifestations in your thoughts. You imagining yourself being at a beach and feeling it doesn’t make it real. You having a lucid dream and being at the beach doesn’t make it real. So what makes all of this so much more real? We don’t even know where consciousness comes from or what it is. For all we know, it probably comes from nowhere. Well, that’s at least what I believe. (and of course, all of this are just my beliefs but you keep calling me out for not falling in line with my beliefs but I’m just not seeing it yet)
I believe thoughts are imaginary. In the same way your idea of me is very limited to what you’ve seen on me and your thoughts on what you’ve seen, your idea of what is right or wrong is very limited to everything you’ve percieved about reality. You don’t have access to all the universe’s information or every being’s perspective to make absolute objective statements of ‘reality.’ Ideas are possibilities that exist within the vaccum of infinity.
I am with you in that I personally think communism sucks as a system but there are people who are genuinely okay with the limitations and negative repercussions that existing within a system like that. I respect people’s right to believe whatever they resonate with or choose to believe, even if I personally think it’s nonsense.
Ideas are possibilities and we bound ourselves to the restrictions within these possibilities, the moment we identify with them. I agree with @JAAJ that many socialist/communist ideas promote the victim mindset and that such a mindset, increases the possiblity that you limit your capcaity for abundance and taking control of your life. But in the same sense, identifying with capitalism or any other idea with an objective mind, closes your mind to so many other doors of understanding in the mind.
The reason I consider all ideas is because my mind opens to so much more information and knowledge through that. So much more understanding. So much more compassion and love and capacity to experience anything and everything. So much more control. I don’t fully believe in any ideas yet I consider all. I lean towards some but that doesn’t mean that I find them to be absolute or I am not open to changing my mind. That is my philosophy and yet again, I am not seeing how I am speaking against my own philosophy.
No, I won’t. I am aware I have not acted 100% in line with my philosophy in the past. I don’t think anyone does though. Not you or anyone else, as reality is far too fluid and ever changing to remain in one direction. And we humans are far too flawed to act perfectly in line with any beliefs.
That is why I choose to have a malleable and open mind that able to adapt and move freely within any situation. People who choose ideas and concepts as absolute truths, end up closing themselves into boxes and behave in preogrammed limited ways.
As for blasting people for ideas that I don’t agree with, I am expressing my disagreement. Me seeing something I disagree with and expressing my thoughts against it doesn’t indicate that I am triggered or offended by it. Had I been blasting you guys and putting you down for your thoughts and beliefs and then insulting you guys, then yeah, I’m acting outside of my principles.
But I don’t disagree with you guys for having any of your controversial beliefs and like you less or treat you lesser for it. I still embrace ya’ll with open arms. That is all I’ve been saying. It’s okay to disagree and express disagreement but the moment we get triggered to the point that we insult people or want to WIN an argument over someone, is the moment we fall to our impulsive emotions. And by then, we aren’t learning or growing anymore. We are just fighting and wasting our energy.
In the past, I think I certainly would get more triggered by certain ideas and get emotional. But over time, I’ve become less and less emotionally triggered by different ideas as I’ve grown to become more and more accepting of intolerance and all the worst aspects of humanity… such as intolerance, hatred, desire to destroy and corrupt, ext… I have been growing.
Thank you actually. I am genuinely enjoying this. This is what I wanted. An honest conversation. Man to man. Soul to soul. I know I sound crazy when I say this but I see you as myself too. And your capacity to intellectually pick apart thoughts is part of the reason we are having this conversation. So thanks again for engaging.
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I’m glad you mentioned subtlety of language, we have plenty of that to discuss.
I’m gonna write part 2 eventually and include the rebuttal. I still disagree in the specifics.
You’re faster than me man
I wanted to post something that someone sent me by PM. Someone sent me a PM criticizing me and I think that criticism is rather on point and should be read by you guys, as well as my answer:
ANONYMOUS
Hey man,
Really aligned with your sharings in General Discussion, and I get why you are coming at Philip & Jaaj.
I feel such discussions matters, as the two of them have strong leading potential for this forum, and their ego is evolved enough to accept any feedback.
I also think going through visio is a good idea, though I feel going public is a terrible idea as it’ll expose them. As your reputation, and all of the little sapien med minions staring at their screen, will kill Philip & Jaaj’s flow and indirectly belittle them.
With love though, I’ve noticed those last weeks that you hold a distortion that this forum belongs to you, that you are its “owner”. Maybe this is something you would like to inquire into?
My experience of things, is that any organization or business, soon after it is created becomes its own living entity. This gets more and more obvious when more entities join this ship.
It does not make any sense to give to birth a child, then impose some possession upon it, and I believe this is very much the same for this place or any business.
Fatherhood implies leadership, if this is the father’s wish, but if you stand back a little you’ll notice that by applying some possessive feeling upon this place, this actually creates tension both for you and for the living entity that it is.
I think Philip pointed out a sub-aspect of it pretty well when he mentioned he had to be careful to not be banned (which is ridiculous knowing you, but there was something behind it)
Ofc we could get into the fact that you are paying the bills.
But if we step back, are you truly paying the bills?
Aren’t the bill well get covered by all the business it brings to Sapien Medicine?
Haven’t we all become Sapien Medicine best marketeers? This forum best moderators?
How does it go when you, as its Founder, leave for some days?
Ofc as a Founder of the forum, or Brain (if we were to take the human body metaphor), you role is of utmost importance. But does the body belongs to the brain? And what is the impact of such beliefs / thought forms on the body?
If you feel inspired to get deeper into such concepts, I would suggest you to check literature on Collective Intelligence or Teal Organizations (start with Frédéric Laloux).
I believe your view about our society is 100% on point (at least we share the same belief system), and this forum, along many other communities, has the potential to be leading the way to a new society.
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ME
Good points overall. You’re right, I don’t essentially own this forum. It is it’s own living entity as you say. It is not something I possess. Funnily enough, this was mainly how I would percieve it throughout the years and part of the reason I’ve been so passive to many of the things that happen here. I like to let people be themselves and not be so restrictive.
After my awakening experience, there was a very strong urge to start acting on what I know. To spread light. I just feel a very, very strong urgency to do something as I sometimes feel I am wasting all I know and am by not doing more. That has made me more aggressive than I typically I am. It feels like time is running out and I am not doing enough.
And well, this community is all I’ve done up to this point. I see myself in all of you. In my experience, I felt all of you being a part of the possible great change in the world. I see all of you as potential to lead the way into a better world. So yeah, I might have gotten rather agressive when I see you guys perpetuating the kind of behavior that has the world in this depolorable state in the first place.
I thought I had made peace with humanity’s high probability of falling to its demise. But I think I have some more work to do in that regard. I really got to let go. I have to let go of my belief in you all. Not because you guys aren’t capable but because you don’t owe me or the world anything. You are free to think and behave as you do. And I can’t change you no matter how hard I try. The best I can do is perhaps nudge you in the right direction and set the kind of example of behavior I think would lead to a more harmonious world.
Because I think a lot of you got me twisted. I don’t believe in being this peaceful saint all the time that never falls to impulse and always responds with love. That’s almost impossible as we are flawed creatures. What I believe in is trying. I know I’m trying. And I’m glad to hear where I’m failing at trying. I’m learning.
But what I do criticize is the lack of trying from many of you who know better. And part of that is because I really believe in you guys and that attachment makes me sad to see some of you not even bother trying anymore. I apologize for that and shall detach myself.
I can understand why my soul is pushing for all this. It exposes everything.
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That is fine. We don’t have to come to an agreement. This is fun and quite a learning experience for me overall. So hit me with all you’ve got. You’re pretty godamned good at this. I can see the way you think and I freaking love it. Those manhattan fields got your neurons firing off in all sorts of ways.
Nah, i think you’re just as fast thinker too. If we were speaking french, it would be the other way around (not really, I don’t know french at all lol).
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As per the definition that’s what it is and that’s how it looked to me.
I’m trying to be specific like you wanted, I have a long list and a long week to go. When I’m not busy with my routine or playing Battlefield, I’ll go through every single post you made in order.
do you really want to stand by that ?
Really ??
Well, if that’s your guideline on what line not to cross.
- I think it’s fair to be granted the general understanding that our opinions are just that. It’s in the forum’s culture at this point. My words are just that, my words. I don’t have any authority as you’ve made clear many times. I made plenty of disclaimers in many threads that my opinions were just my opinions too. It’s in the public domain, people can refer to it in oder to establish my intent and character.
- So, if I say : “that guy doesn’t know what he talks about”, it’s a fact and offensive. But if I say “I don’t consider that’s guy’s words as credible” then it’s a subjective opinion and he will think “Hmm… well, ok” ?
How is this not some PC BullshT ? It’s an insult to one’s intelligence in my opinion.
Yes, I took what you said literally, since you apparently know the importance of subtle language it shouldn’t be a problem and it fits in the theme of emotional sensitivity and lack of discipline.
You are pretending that he is upset about me speaking in facts and not opinion. But if he is upset it’s because of the perception I have of him and the meaning I convey to him and others which influence his social standing in the community and self-image. If he is upset its about the consequences of my speech, he is upset about what I think which is negative however framed. That’s why we are upset at nice people who think horrible things about us. It’s also dishonest.
I find the idea that my judgement framed as a fact instead of a an opinion is the issue absurd.
Instead, we’ll see if that negative perception is deserved or not. Whether he gave that impression and behaved a certain way or not. Does he know what he talks about ? If he doesn’t, then he invited my comments. (We’ll consider them in details soon). Are we not responsible for the situations we put ourselves in ?
- If he talks about things that he doesn’t know, me saying that he doesn’t know is simply a statement.
What if I have facts, logic and statistics to support my claim that he indeed doesn’t know ? Will my comment be permitted then ?
I’ll go in details when we get there in chronological order. It fits into a broader point I want to set up carefully.
If people cannot separate the information from the way it is conveyed, then it shows a lack of maturity and discipline. It’s also a trait that has been described as the equivalent of toxic femininity in traditional societies from around the world. I reject the woke ideology and feelgoodeism (find out later why I think it’s illogical and immoral).
You also basically admitted that I was barely on the line of what’s tolerated and that’s based on my past behaviour. (I have commentaries for that too later).
- He did the same. That’s not the issue though. The issue is with the arbitrary call outs. If one can and another can’t, that’s unfair and unequal.
If anything, my frustration doesn’t come only with his constant dismissal of things I believe in (which he does), he also insults vague groups of people. He doesn’t name anyone in particular, but he passive aggressively insults others on the forum who belong to that group.
If so, doesn’t that mean that he nurtured our current dynamic ?
If I can prove that he did, am I walking away freely ?
Also, how many times prior did he send me to read a book like an illiterate peasant on other threads ?
He expresses his contempts daily on subjects and opinions that are important to others (not in the venting thread, he goes out of his way to spit on ideas and people who hold them to a disturbing degree). He dismisses people’s hard work and hardship. He dismisses people as unconscious beasts. He puts himself above others constantly. His contributions are majoritarily negative.
I don’t go around saying everything is relative and subjective, I don’t go around talking about non-identification. Therefore I’m not the one who’s hypocritical.
I post this here, I got other stuff to do, I’ll finish this. I’m still at the beginning of the last 3 posts you wrote.
Then I go back to the main trope with part 2.
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You know what’s funny, when he insults groups of people multiple times (not in the venting thread) and then comes 2 weeks later saying I am part of this and that group.
That’s too subtle and spaced out for the sheriff. He’s too clever. I get it, it’s impossible to keep track.
I got to spell everything out
I forgot a bunch of stuff, I’ll write another post quickly. You wrote something which I consider very silly.
I do. I have for a long time been pushing for healthy discussion in this forum. I disagree with people all the time and typically have healthy discussions that don’t end in bitterness and chaos. I learn from my discussions such as this one and don’t even feel any discord. I still feel discord in you and I apologize if this conversation makes you feel that way. But these are hard conversations to have and that I believe are necessary in these trying times.
One of the biggest issues that humanity has at the moment is that we can’t have productive conversations with people we disagree with. Through the 3 years of this forum, I have seen this happen time and time again. And when I ask ‘how is insulting someone conducive to a productive conversation? How is dismissing someone simply for having a difference of opinion helpful in any sort of way?’ none of you have an answer.
By the time you start doing that, people aren’t listening to you anymore and want to insult you back. You start an argument that goes nowhere. This is why the culture war is so taxing and making us mad. We can’t even talk to eachother anymore.
And yeah, like I said I think criticizing people’s character in good faith isn’t a bad thing. It’s an adult thing. But that’s not what you did. You said the guy doesn’t know what he’s talking about 90% of the time and that he can’t really process anything so don’t bother with him.
How did that add to the discussion in any way? You could have just minded your business, who cares if someone tags you. To just dismiss someone’s opinion as trash just closes off so many people from the forum or who are lurking who want to share their thoughts… who would want to open up about things that you might not be in line with. But when you guys belittle anyone that doesn’t think like you do, that draws so many people away from the forum.
You guys have no idea how many people have messaged me over the years that the way some of you treat people here makes not want any part in this. Hell, people who have messaged me today confirming they feel what I’m saying and they’re likely done with this place. That you guys just ain’t gonna listen and go back to doing the same thing. This forum could be thriving waaaaaaaaaaaaay more with so many more different people, with different thoughts and points of views but some of you really can’t see how ya’ll behavior is so damn suffocating.
Soooo many people over the past 3 years have been driven away by this kind of behavior. Heck, less and less people have been joining the forum over the years cause of this kind of thing and it’s not cause sapien medicine isn’t growing!
So yeah, it has an effect on me and others man. These kinds of opinions that belittle people add absolutely nothing to the forum and instead take away its value. Because when you can’t even express yourself without being sniped by the guys who a number of people in the forum look up to or respect, then people don’t even bother signing up or sharing their thoughts.
You’re probably right. That does sound like some pc bullshit but in dismantling words we are arguing over, it’s gonna sound like PC bullshit. I am dismantling what you say because it’s quite clear in the language you used, that you meant to insult him. The fact that after that post, you also say he can’t process things confirms that. I’m just using logic against your logic that doesn’t quite add up. I don’t trust that you didn’t intend to insult the guy and the words you use tend to express that. You’re over here justifying doing what you did in a million different ways but it just doesn’t change the fact that it was so damned clear you were insulting the man.
Forget the language for a moment though, we are energetic beings and intents can be felt. If you publicly dismiss someone as not having any sense of mind in what they say, is that respectful? Be honest.
You still aren’t getting it so I’m going to speak very clear to you. It is almost absolutely clear that you insulted the man for no reason other than he had an opinion you disagree with. He felt disrespected and started lashing back at you and well, here we are today. Let’s be real about that at least and get past the semantics of all this.
I called you out on doing that and here you are justifying it or defending yourself for doing that in like 50 different ways. Your mouth is your mouth. You can insult people if you please. But insulting people is a rule in this forum because almost every single time that happens, it either pushes people away from this forum or causes arguments that lead to absolutely nothing of value.
Answer my questions. How is insulting people conducive to a productive conversation? How? I have been asking you guys this for years and I am stuck waiting for an answer. I’m guessing you know it’s not productive and do it anyways. You’re like ‘fuck this guy’ and spit your fire. You want to burn them. Because if you meant well and really wanted to guide someone in the right direction, you wouldn’t do that. You aren’t stupid so you very well know that he isn’t going to listen to you the moment you do that. You do that to let everybody else know how you feel about this sucker and get everyone else to also think he’s a sucker too. If that’s what you’re doing, that’s some low brow shit homie. And if it’s not, then what are you doing? What is the purpose? What is the intent?
In your opinion. Some people actually think your contributions are negative as well. Does that make them right for thinking that? No but at the end of the day, it is their opinion. It is their way of percieving the world. And the world does not revolve around you or jaaj or me or any of the respected members here. You guys do not have all the answers, on the real. Ya’ll really don’t. Niether do I.
So none of our wisdom or growth gives us the damn right to disrespect people. Explain why it should? Why should I be able to disrespect people that I think are ignorant for not believing in what I ‘know’ to be right? Why?
Prove that to me. I have seen his posts but I haven’t seen that. I might have missed something. That being said, some of you guys have publicly (passive agressively) and privately said some shitty things about me but am I over here insulting ya’ll publicly? Like someone’s bad behavior justifies mine? He wasn’t doing anything in that thread against you to warrant you saying that. That’s like when cops kill a black guy for something like a selling cigarettes and then people justify the killing because he committed crimes in the past. It doesn’t make it right.
Ya’ll think things like ‘this piece of shit doesn’t deserve respect. his views are toxic and destructive. I won’t show him respect and diss him if I can’ like that’s some righteous kind of mindset. Tell me how this kind of mindset in the modern world today, will lead to a world of harmony and peace? We all think differently and cannot avoid eachother anymore. This egotistical mentality just. doesn’t. work.
If you’re trying to prove my hypocrisy, you’re still not doing a good job of it. Try harder. I’m hungry for it.
I’m off til later though. I got things to do.
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This time I wasn’t talking about you.
I clicked on his profile to find a the post where he ranted about conservatives, religion and went on nonsensical gender stuff. He did express his anger in uncalled for ways.
But overviewing his posts which I blocked a while ago. I can’t say I wasn’t wrong about him being majoritarily negative. He is not.
When it’s not about politics and economics, he is a role model. He is generally in a respectful and agreeable mood, many times more than me. So, on this I was wrong.
That makes fact that he faded out of this convo apologizing classy.
So, @heidegger what’s fair is fair. I apologize for wrongly besmirching your honor on that specific regard.
Only talking about interpersonal attitudes.
That makes this comment particularly nasty and uncalled for:
I maintain the rest of the arguments I made although they should have been worded with more respect.
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Apology accepted.
I am resentful, not for the reasons you wrote though.
I don’t think it is a bad thing.
Maybe bodhisattvas are enough aware to see suffering in others and feel compassion more often.
When I see suffering in others I usually get angry and feel injustice.
My personal beliefs and my political beliefs are not always the same.
What I want for society does not adjust with my view of personal development and personal improvement.
I deeply believe in self realization, but I do not believe that it is a measure to solve deep rooted social problems.
I wouldn’t tell a pregnant mother starving with 8 kids not being able to access health care to read a book on finance or that she’s free to overcome her situation.
Maybe once she is out from that Point of No Return, she may be able to develop enough awareness to seek self realization. But not before that.
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Fan of logic and good arguments as you are, you must know that one cannot have reasonable opinions based on statistically insignificant examples (ie: exceptions).
Saying this because this starving lady as a way of creeping in on talking points. Not the first time.
Logical arguments are based on generalities.
I haven’t come for your actual beliefs. We talked bout your/my attitude. It’s coming.
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If we are back on a debate with no personal attacks (which is what I’d like),
There are several forms of logic that are not necessarely predicated on statistical measurements and nonetheless it tries to reach particular examples.
For example, hypothetical deductive reasoning it is not always based on statistical analysis and it tries to reach a particularity through a generality that may not necessarely be accountable empirically.
With this, I mean that suffering cannot be measured statistically but it can be theorized logically through a coherent argumentation. Like the suffering from class, economy struggles, identity, social values, etc.
You are already prone to confirmation bias, plus this is usually used to form hypothesis prior to experimentation and data collecting. We already have a lot of data.
I don’t want to have a battle of emotions over hypothetical suffering.
What data do you think we are missing ?
Because that’s the idea behind your hypothetical suggestion
Maybe you’d prefer if I go pick your arguments stated above and work on them first to get this going ?
Otherwise you can start. The choice is yours.
That’s the thing. There is no unbiased argumentation because you always start from a reduction and axiomatic corpse of presupositions.
Ontology in this sense is more important than epistemology.
I almost forgot why we never debated
Let’s go with as objective as possible if you prefer the term.
After all you preach economic and political ideas, that’s not too hard to compare and analyse.
Why do you think Marxism is so great ?
or similar question
or why capitalism is bad ?
Start wherever you want
If you want to state some background stuff to make sure we’re on the same page. Go ahead.
You can even start with the Talmud or Egyptian hieroglyphs.
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All forms of knowledge are incomplete. They can only function within a very narrowed, partial and unstable understanding that is limited also by our subjective division (a fancy term for interpretation).
This had been proven through chemistry in Chaos Theory, in mathematics with Godel’s incomplete theorem and Physics with Heisenberg’s indeterminacy principle, all quoted by Lacan to prove this inconsistency of symbolic knowledge.
I don’t think that Marxism is great, i think it has some critiques that are on point and others that are not.
Capitalism is not bad, it is just unaware of its flaws.
« Capitalism is unaware of it’s flaws ».
My table doesn’t know it sucks, yeah, big deal. Does that even make sense ?
Maybe it’s not the right time for you, we can do this tomorrow.
I was rude earlier, I understand the stress. Don’t be shy.
Usually you can’t wait to tell us.
Please, go ahead
Shoot